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Features 345 Hemi Desoto

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Gullwing, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. Gullwing
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 29

    Gullwing
    Member

    [​IMG][/IMG][​IMG]

    I suppose to be more traditional I should have used Strombergs but I always liked the look of the Webers.
     
  2. ratman
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 423

    ratman
    Member

    Pic's wont show up for me
     
  3. Mnhotrodbuilder
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,140

    Mnhotrodbuilder
    Member
    from Afton, MN

  4. Mnhotrodbuilder
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,140

    Mnhotrodbuilder
    Member
    from Afton, MN

    Alright gullwing I need more detail on the motor and where i can score this intake.
     

  5. Gullwing
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 29

    Gullwing
    Member

    The motor is a 341 bored to 345. The intakes are 4 separate aluminium manifolds. I am still in the prototype phase. They are unmachined. One critical issue for me has been hood clearance. Although generally having 8 velocity stacks pocking out the hood looks way cool. This doesn't work for me. Still sorting out a few problems but needed to mock it up to see where we are with height. Also, the intake pre-heat port between the two manifold is open and will need to be blocked off somehow. Also I plan on adding an AN-#10 male bung in each one for the water passage. Any advice as to running coolant would be appreciated.
     
  6. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 7,175

    73RR
    Member

    Very interesting project !! Yes, building 'something' for your thermostat will be the next issue. Waaay back in the old days we installed an LA chain case cover on a 330 and welded up a 'box' on the top for a t-stat as that engine had a log manifold, similar problem to what you have.
    Given the shape of the exhaust crossover port you may need to machine a small step inside the head and then make a matching plug that will fit very tightly inside the step. I'd add some small retaining screws.

    .
     
  7. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

  8. ratman
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 423

    ratman
    Member

    Looks good, Have you thought of making each side one piece. That way you would cover the pre heat ports. Good luck
     
  9. Gullwing
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 29

    Gullwing
    Member

    Ratman;

    Yes making the manifolds one piece is probably the way to go. However if I did that I would need to make a core box to cast the runners. That actually would work out well at a lot of levels. It would bring the cost down. I could make two different cores one for the low deck, one for the high deck which have larger runners. I could also make two different baseplates one for Dodge Red Ram and the other for Desoto. This intake is a prototype for use on my motor. As a one-off it is easier to mill the current base off then weld the castings to a base plate and be done with it. I will post it if I have any progress. I have a 291 Desoto laying around. It would probably be easier to sell if it had a manifold.
     
  10. Phil1934
    Joined: Jun 24, 2001
    Posts: 2,716

    Phil1934
    Member

    Easiest would be to just sandwich a plate between the heads and your manifolds. It could transition the different port sizes, too.
     
  11. F-6Garagerat
    Joined: Apr 12, 2008
    Posts: 2,652

    F-6Garagerat
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    Attached Files:

  12. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
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  13. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,214

    sunbeam
    Member

    I use thermostats for 8N ford tractors they fit in the upper hose and are about $20.
     
  14. NMCarNut
    Joined: Nov 28, 2009
    Posts: 635

    NMCarNut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Om, I hate to rain on your parade, but those are DCOE Webers which are sidedraft, not downdraft. Unless someone has done some sort of conversion I've never heard of on them they ain't going to work standing on end, no way no how.
     
  15. Mnhotrodbuilder
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,140

    Mnhotrodbuilder
    Member
    from Afton, MN

    NMcarnut,

    He knows they are side draft DCOE and told me he gutted them. With side and down draft carbs not being my specialty, I'm not sure what that involved with that process. Heck I just learned it was possible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  16. Gullwing
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 29

    Gullwing
    Member

    Yes these are side draft DCOE not the more expensive IDA updraft. They have the venturis removed. I am machining a bung for a Bosch fuel injector.
    I was hesitant to bring it up because most on this site are 100% traditional hot rod and aren't big fans of electronic fuel injection. So I will not mention the Denso coil-on-plug that fit nicely in the spark plug tubes and will be hidden under the wire covers.
     
  17. NMCarNut
    Joined: Nov 28, 2009
    Posts: 635

    NMCarNut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wanted to make sure. If you have heard of a way to convert, other than adding a fuel injector, I'd sure like to know more.

    Using the carbs for show and adding injection is a neat idea (even the tradionalists were creative), but running the DCOEs on end just looks sorta goofy, sorry.

    Make some 90 degree adapters and put your coolant fittings in them, it will also solve your hood clearance issue with stacks.


     

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  18. tjmercury
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 589

    tjmercury
    Member

    Looks great! way to think outside of the box!!!
     
  19. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,170

    PackardV8
    Member

    Would be mildly interesting to keep a tally of how many at a trad rod show would say, "How'd he make the sidedrafts work standing up?" Probably not too many, but a general show where sports car and Shelby guys are there, would be a constant parade.

    As an aside, the Webers looks better on an engine with alternate intake ports than on an intake scrunched together in a Y on the SBC/SBF with paired intake ports.

    Another FWIW, Offenhauser was making that thermostat housing fifty years ago.

    jack vines
     
  20. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Because i wanted to keep exhaust from #2&3 and 6&7 from mixing in the heat riser port on a Chrysler. I used tape to block off the riser port as it entered the exhaust valve bowl. Then I used plaster of Paris to fill the valve bowl. I then melted some old aluminum and poured it in the riser from the manifold face. When it cooled I filed it flat with the manifold face and removed the plaster. It never leaked exhaust. Do be quick about removing the plaster and oil it real well to prevent rust. I did quite a few heads this way and it always worked.
     
  21. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,170

    PackardV8
    Member

    Rich and I are old enough to agree on most engine building techniques.

    I've also filled V8 exhaust crossover ports forever. However, on the most recent Packard V8 performance build, I just blocked them at the intake head surface and couldn't really notice any difference in street performance.

    Anyone ever seen any dyno or flowbench tests which prove filling the crossover and porting the exhaust to look like it was never there is worth doing or not?

    jack vines
     
  22. Gullwing
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 29

    Gullwing
    Member

    Thanks for the idea about the aluminium. I was thinking of using lead but aluminium is safer.
    I know that some on this post can tell a side draft from an updraft Weber however so few people run them anymore I was doubtful anyone would even notice
     
  23. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Jack: The Chryslers that I did were for members of the Juggers Racing Team. I also did a blown BBC for a member. They were of the opinion that leaving the riser open on a blown motor leads to lifting said blower. And the Plymouth with the Y block head had the injectors cut apart by the previous owner. So I had nothing to keep exhaust from exiting there except the aluminum.
     
  24. EARLYHEMIBILL
    Joined: Apr 7, 2008
    Posts: 465

    EARLYHEMIBILL
    Member
    from ?

    That is beautiful. Don't think I've ever seen that setup on any old Hemi. Did you cast the intakes yourself?
     
  25. Gullwing
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 29

    Gullwing
    Member

    I made the wood form for this. Then made a silicon rubber mold. I then popped out 4 wax copies and covered them with castable resist. The project then went dormant when I moved to New Zealand. My intent was to build a furnace and ramp up to cast them myself. I have about a dozen small pieces I needed to have cast in bronze for window hinges so I thought I would have to do them all by lost wax.
    I found a local foundry that does sand casting of aluminium and bronze and they said they could make most of the bronze pieces inexpensively with sand casting. The manifolds were not so cheap $100 each but they could do it without me making a core box. So after machine costs I probably be in the $1000 range. I guess this is acceptable for a one off prototype. Keeping in mind that I wasn't sure it would fit. So I had the one made first. (it's also cheaper than building a furnace, buying a pyrometer etc.)
    I doubt that anyone would be enough interest to make more but I imagine if I made a core etc. I could get the cost below $500

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,431

    Jet96
    Member
    from WY

    Has anyone ever heard of using zinc ? A friend of mine recently had a big olds built and the guy told him that's what he used...
     
  27. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,431

    Jet96
    Member
    from WY

    For blocking the crossover, I mean.
     
  28. Gullwing
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 29

    Gullwing
    Member

    I guess it's all academic now. I made a 2.0 cm thick aluminium plate that runs across the entire head. Milled the mounting flanges off the manifolds and will weld two manifolds to each plate. So the heater cross-over is closed off. The next issue is the coolant passages. I had intended to tap each for an AN-#10 bung. I don't yet have the Hot Heads timing cover and Chevy water pump so I am not quite sure of the water flow. Even Ron Ceridono's book isn't clear on this. Anyone able to help me with this?
     
  29. Bert Kollar
    Joined: Jan 10, 2007
    Posts: 1,232

    Bert Kollar
    Member

    I wish I was that talented .Nice job. I had to use 94"s
     

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  30. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I filled the heat risers on my old sbf with furnace cement. Worked well.
     

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