So, what do you guys know about old '50's (I guess) 3-speed manuals with solenoid overdrives? My truck originally came with a 4-speed floor shift unsynchronized T-9 transmission. I've been looking to get a slightly newer synchro like a T-98, but have run across a 3-speed with solenoid overdrive. Are these good units, are they worth much, and is it worth the hassle? I think all of the 3-speed trucks had a column shift, and I know they used to make floor shift conversions, are they still around? I am guessing the transmission is a few years newer than my truck, maybe mid-'50's.
Packard transmission were the heaviest old transmissions, they HAD a synchro on first gear, were short and some came with the electric shift overdrives, Next were BW T 85, most were in ford product but other companies used them, The T 85 case looks like the BW T 10 4 speeds, they shared some parts. then the other transmissions that were not as strong.
I've got a.complete 1940 Packard 6 drivetrain w/od and a 1953 Ford car 6 drivetrain w/od. I'd like to know the answer to iroc409's question, too.
I put 200K on a 60 chevy with a 327. Never a problem. Excelent gas milage and fun to hit passing gear(drop out of OD). On the old two lane roads, to pass I would put it in second over. When I made my move it would drop to second direct and then back to OD when slowing to get back in lane. Then just put it in third. I ran a 4.56 and later during the gas crunch, back to a 3.70.
I just got my OD working in my 52 Crestline a few weeks ago. The car was my dads and the OD was never hooked up since putting it in 25 years ago(was an auto car). How he originally explained it to me on how it worked(his memory from the early 60's was a bit off), was that you pushed in the clutch, pulled out the cable, and OD was then engaged. Through my research hear and beyond, the explanation of how it worked were different than that, and I honestly was not very exited about it anymore(the freewheeling, no reverse without pulling the clutch out, ect). Once I finally got it working, I soon discovered that it is a great transmission. I wouldn't say it is better than a 4 or 5 speed, but different and cooler. For anything earlier than a 60's muscle car, I think it is a must-have. I have 3:90's and a flathead, and 1st gear is plenty low, yet it cruises at 65 very nicely. I haven't dug into the OD mechanism of the tranny at this point, but through my dealings with it over the last couple months, I have a pretty decent grasp on the hook up(and what not to do). If you need any info, just let me know.
I killed many a BW T85 OD..... Not a bad trans if you don't abuse them, but one of the reasons they disappeared is they couldn't take the increasing HP coming out of Detroit. Use them as intended and they'll deliver great gas mileage. There's several versions, the later 4-pinion OD units were quite a bit stronger. You'll run into side-loader versions, these will be the light-duty ones (most of these were Ford/GM trans with fitted with BW-supplied OD tailshafts), the BW toploader design is the stronger unit. They don't like to be speed-shifted, it will kill the syncros first, then the OD. If you leave the OD engaged all the time, you won't know the syncros are bad until the OD fails. Floorshifts for these are nearly non-existent these days (and seldom worked well), stick with a column shift. There's wiring involved, and if you have electronic ignition there may be issues with the kickdown circuit. I liked these a lot, just don't beat on them.... LOL
You engaged OD by pushing the cable in; pulled out, OD was locked out. These had two things that controlled when OD was working; the solenoid, which changed between OD and non-OD, and the governor. The latter would automatically shift the trans into OD at a certain speed (generally around 20-25 MPH) when you let off the gas, but would also shift out of OD when you dropped below about 20 when coasting. Reverse would work all the time if everything is present and hooked up, but if the cable was pushed in (OD engaged), you had to use the parking brake when stopped or the car would coast away.
"but if the cable was pushed in (OD engaged), you had to use the parking brake when stopped or the car would coast away." Thanks for that! A little detail that I had not come across before and I'm sure glad I just saw it. s_f_l
Wow, thanks for all the info! I'm not sure which one it is specifically, but the T85 would make sense. This supposedly came out of a truck, which seems kind of odd, but it seems a more interesting way to get on the highway. Can these tail shafts be swapped onto any top-loader 4-speeds? I ask because finding all the column shift linkage stuff may be a pain in the rear.
Generally, the only time I locked the OD out was going down long hills or heavy rain; with it engaged, you had zero engine braking and running out of brakes was no fun. Heavy rain, I disengaged OD to spin the motor faster to get enough engine vacuum to operate the wipers... LOL. The car I had the longest with a OD (actually, I still have it...LOL) was a 223 six-powered '56 Ranch Wagon, and it never delivered less than 20 mpg in town, and could hit 26 on the highway. With 4.10 rear gears no less...
Adding the OD is a difficult deal. You need a custom trans main shaft (or have yours cut/resplined) and will need a adaptor to fit the OD housing to the trans case. It's been years, but IIRC Advance adaptors used to make a kit to install a OD behind a T10. They're still around, you might try contacting them. Not cheap.... I've never seen a factory 4-speed/OD. You might look at Jeep T85 trans. They used a top-cover shifter, you might be able to convert a top-load, side-shift T85 to a floor shift that way.
Yeah, I know how it works now, but the way my dad had explained it(and how he incorrectly remembered it working back in 1961), is what I initially based by assumptions on.
Lot of misinformation on ODs thus far. This is from experience: 1. All T85s were side loaded cases and hell-for-stout. The T85 and truck version T89 are IMHO maybe the best choice for a period-correct H.A.M.B. build. 2. The Hurst three-speed shifter can be adapted to the T85. You may be making your own bracket and rods. It works beautifully. 3. The top-loaded Borg-Warners were the medium-duty T86 and the light-duty T96. 4. AFAIK, Jeeps never used the T85. 5. There are a very few T85s made without overdrive. 6. Corvette and Borg-Warner engineers figured how to put four synchro gears into the T85 case, moving reverse to the rear, calling it the T10. GM got an exclusive contract for three years, 1957-60. Studebaker began using the T10 in 1961, then Ford, used it through the mid-60s. It's still in production as the Super T10. 7. Tom Beatty, the old lakes racer, made an adapter kit to mate the R11 overdrive unit to the T10 transmission. It worked well but didn't sell well. I've got one built unit and complete kit to build one more. 8. If you're buying an old OD tranny, up to '56 the solenoid will be 6 volt. The 12 volt solenoids cost a small fortune today. 9. If buying, try to get a complete unit with governor, solenoid, kickdown switch, in/out cable and driveshaft. All the small parts add up. jack vines
This is from an International pickup, so safe to assume it is a T89? I actually now remember I had a '68 GMC that had a column-to-floor conversion kit. The kit locked up the transmission, but apparently the previous owner failed to tell me the gear pattern, while H-pattern, was reversed from normal. Blew up that night, replaced with T98. Hopefully they are not all reversed. They used the T-98 and T-18 for top loader 4-speeds, but not sure beyond that. I doubt it includes any of the extras. I think he has a "new" Delco clutch for it, and the bell housing. The solenoid is on the transmission, but that's probably it. Is the pill cable, governor and kickdown switch anything special? I might be going from a long box to short box (maybe), and if so I might need a custom drive shaft anyway. I'll have to ask him. Thanks for the info, Jack!
The governor is part of the transmission, it will be behind and on the opposite side from the solenoid. Should be covered with a rubber boot. The pull cable is nothing special, the kickdown switch is just a NO switch that mounts under the gas pedal. There's also a special relay (operated by the kickdown switch) that kills power to the ignition for about 1/2 revolution of the crankshaft when the kickdown switch closes and operates the OD solenoid.
I used a 55 chevy O.D. 3 speed trans in my 68 chevy shortbox behind a 292 six. I didn't wire the governor, ran 12 volts to the solenoid with a common toggle switch and used an aftermarket "Morse" cable to the lever. Worked great and gave me 6 forward speeds which is not recommended. Using O.D. in low gear gives enough torque multiplication to lunch the sprag....which happened after I sold the truck to someone else. I loved it. I was able to reuse the original 3 speed column shifter also.
Instead of adding to what PackardV8 has already stated, here is an article while geared up towards Ford trucks does a great job of explaining O.D. transmissions. http://www.fordification.com/tech/overdrive.htm As stated the T85/T89 transmissions are pretty stout. Hopefully it is coupled to a R11 O.D. which is also stout, the R10 not so much.
Thanks for the article link! I will read it over when I get a chance. I was able to find a picture of the actual transmission in question. What are these basically worth, anyway?
Are replacement parts available for those trans or do you have to do some scrounging to find them,my 55 Ford is going back to a Y block and was thinking about one of those trans for it.
The tranny in the photo is a T86. It's the medium duty and can last if not speed-whupped. The very long input shaft is probably for an IH and won't fit anything else. What it's worth depends upon which of the twenty or so versions and how badly one wants that version. NOS parts for the old B-W are usually outrageously expensive. Don't plan on repairing one. Another used tranny is always a better bargain. I've seen vendors asking $200 for a solenoid and $150 for an input shaft. Some Ford Y-blocks, such as T-birds and trucks, used the good T85. They're not common, but look in '60s-early '70s 1/2t pickups. I've got one from a '70s 292". jack vines
Hmm, thanks Jack. It sounds like unless it's pretty much in really good shape, it might just be better for me to find a T98 and a 2.93-3.03 rear end instead. I'll talk to the person some more, but this is already going to cost enough. I've been chasing enough parts around I don't want to do it forever with this transmission, unless I get a really good deal on it.
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