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Welded pitman arm, safe or death?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lrs30, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Only if you don't know what you're doing.

    I've welded pitman arms on dirt track race cars because it was the only way to get the geometry we needed. We had one that got the ultimate test in a crash into a concrete wall. It bent the frame, upper and lower control arms, tie rod and drag link but didn't damage the welded pitman arm. With the frame straightened and parts replaced, the steering seemed to turn farther one way than the other. We found the pitman shaft in the sector was twisted about 15 degrees so the welded arm withstood more force than the shaft it attaches to.
     
  2. oldcarguygazok
    Joined: Jun 20, 2012
    Posts: 401

    oldcarguygazok
    Member
    from AUSTRALIA.

    Get a new or s/hand one,must be someone here that has a spare,good luck,Gaz!:cool:
     
  3. supervert
    Joined: Mar 8, 2009
    Posts: 433

    supervert
    Member

    i run modified pitmans sometimes when needed. i run them on rock crawlers and haven't broke one. so i feel if done right its fine.

    people weld everything else on their car that sees a lot more stress that a pitman arm and don't think twice about it.
     
  4. X2

    If I don't know FOR A FACT who welded the part, and that I trust every aspect of their approach, it will be replaced. I've welded on pitman arms, drag links, etc...
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  5. Weldemup
    Joined: Dec 12, 2003
    Posts: 179

    Weldemup
    Member
    from Central,NY

    Back in the 70's/80's I owned/built/helped build several Northeast type dirt modifieds.(See Avatar).
    I would cut the splined section from a GM arm and weld it into a longer arm made of 3/4 plate for quicker steering.
    Almost everyone that used a GM box back then did it that way.
    I beveled everything and welded it with 7018 stick(No MIG welders then).
    It was welded a full 360 degrees around and I can't remember anyone having a problem.
     
  6. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,318

    gearheadbill
    Member

    "The bottom line is I wouldn't run a welded Pitman arm because it's a lame thing to do. A real man, a real hotrodder, would find a way to do it right . "

    WTF! Welding it correctly is exactly what a "real hotrodder" would do. Your comment seems lame to me.
     
  7. Benny_H
    Joined: Apr 4, 2012
    Posts: 89

    Benny_H
    Member

    welding steering components seems as sensible as shaving your balls with an angle grinder.
     
  8. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,534

    50dodge4x4
    Member


    2) You have apparently never worked in a production welding shop before! To assume just because a guy has "papers" means he is a qualified welder is a mistake. The quality of the weld he produces is dependent on what he feels like producing on any given day. Most large companies that produce product determine what production process get used by how cost effecting it is. I guarantee that if a large company (like GM) can save a nickle on a part or the process used to produce it, the old method is gone in a heartbeat. A forging company can produce a boat load of pit man arm blanks in a day and a machining company can machine that boat load of blanks in another day. To produce the same number of pit man arms by welding would take several days.

    Regarding the above pitman arm, having it xrayed will show any defects in the weld. But really, the bottom line is, if you don't feel something on your ride is safe, replace it. Your unfounded fears don not give you the right to impose your fears on everyone else, though. Pitman arms can and have been welded safely for many years, but they need to be done correctly. Gene
     
  9. spiderdeville
    Joined: Jun 30, 2007
    Posts: 1,134

    spiderdeville
    Member
    from BOGOTA,NJ

    guess they don't have TIG welders or anything
     
  10. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,717

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Not sure why the fuss over welded steering components, unless the weld looks shaky. Every hotrod built has welded steering components on them usually somewhere along the way. Drag links, steering arms, tierods, etc. I've owned/own many cars that use welded components from either after market, or my own work, and never had a crack or failure.
    It really boils down to how it's done, and if the welds are as strong as the whole system.
     
  11. supervert
    Joined: Mar 8, 2009
    Posts: 433

    supervert
    Member



    exactly
     
  12. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,453

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    Does anyone have a steering box mounting plate WELDED to their frame? If so, are you worried?
     
  13. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    Edit: Deleted as to not start shit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  14. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,717

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Because GM doesn't build hotrods, and they find stamping or casting parts less expensive. It's not because they think it's safer, it's just cheaper.
     
  15. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,584

    krooser
    Member

    I was always led to believe that you never weld on steering components but then I started racing... on our Ford's we routinely lengthened pitman and idler arms and shortened steering arms to get a quicker ratio.

    The Chevy guys would take Buick spindles and cut two to make one taller spindle and weld 'em together. They also modified steering center links.

    My last dirt sportsman car had my own design center link, steering and idler arms all fab'd by yours truly in my one car shop with a trusty Miller 35S...

    There have been several how-to posts here over the years showing guys welding a spline from one pitman arm to an arm from another make of car... done all the time. My '49 F-1 had a 70's Ford steering box and a '49 pitman arm.... two pieces welded together. This was done about 30 years before I bought the truck... still worked.

    Remember this stuff is forged steel... not cast iron. Big difference. If you don't trust your welding skills have someone who does weld it up... and stop using your welder because you probably can't be trusted to weld anything.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  16. I think it all boils down to the fact that there are 3 types of people building cars, "Knuckle Draggers", those that are too stupid to realize they shouldn't build anything, "Can't do-ers", those that don't know their limitations and aren't about to find out, and "Can do-ers", those who know their limitations and are comfortable working within those limitations.
    These are pictures of a Howe knuckle I picked out of a salvage yard years ago. Notice (horror of horrors) that it is of welded construction. If it will live in racing conditions, I'm sure that a properly welded pitman arm will get you down the highway safely.

    I believe Henry Ford said, "Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you are right!"
     

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  17. We did the same on my old T. I think GV has 15-20K miles on it now with no issues.
     
  18. That may have been welded by Frank/AKA Fab32 here on the HAMB. He produced a bunch of parts for Howe.
     
  19. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    This thread just goes on and on....

    I think the bottom line is that acceptable welds on steering components exist, but are RARE. This isn't a practice for the wanna-be backyard mechanic. Better to say it isn't a good idea overall than to say it's fine and have everybody try it.

    To me, this fits into the same category as "C" notches and A-arm modifications. You shouldn't be messing with this stuff unless you really know what you're doing. We've all seen enough booger welds to scare us silly.

    As for the OP's question, safe or death, it depends on who the welder was and what equipment was used.
     
  20. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 7,092

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    Oh no!! We're all gonna DIE!!!;) And I made the steering arm too, double-death!!:D And either cut and welded or heated and bent on every single other component in the entire suspension in some way, shape, or form!

    Seriously though... we're all gonna die.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I already died. It was really tragic.
     
  22. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 7,092

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    Mass funeral arrangements are underway...
     
  23. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Careful heat and bend......(one time) ok....but welded steering components ? Not ever !

    4TTRUK
     
  24. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My often street-driven 4x4 rig has fabricated axle housings, steering knuckles, steering arms, tie rod, drag link, pitman arm, steering box mount, steering ram mounts, control arms, subframe, brake brackets, (and everything else), and had about 90,000 miles in this configuration, of which about 65k are on the street, including the streets of Sacramento, and has traveled airborne, more distance than many of you drive your hot rods in a year.

    Life is grand, when you know you know what you are doing. If you don't, don't.

    I am pretty sure that you can't die from boredom, but I will be dammed if I am the first one to find out.
     
  25. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 7,092

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    :cool:
     
  26. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,214

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    I saw your obituary in the paper! It said and I quote "thunderbirdesq has died, please see classified for good deals on all his junk, new husband has no use for this stuff! Lol
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm sure mine will write exactly the same thing.
     
  28. I think this sums it up. You either do or you don't. Those who know, well, they know. You know? :rolleyes:
     
  29. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Man built it, man can fix it. But..you may not be that man. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
  30. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I plan to do my drag link EXACTLY the same way, right down to the ford end. I've already faced death a number of times, so I'm ok with it...:rolleyes::D

    You know, the idea behind welding is that the weld is supposed to be as strong as the surrounding material. If its not, your not welding, your brazing with the incorrect rod.:rolleyes:
     

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