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Welded pitman arm, safe or death?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lrs30, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. Belchfire8
    Joined: Sep 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,540

    Belchfire8
    Member

    We weld our frames together don't we?
     
  2. 26 roadster
    Joined: Apr 21, 2008
    Posts: 2,019

    26 roadster
    Member

    I have done it without problems, others I have seen I wonder about. I guess it is more like if you have to ask................don't do it.
     
  3. GlenC
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 757

    GlenC
    Member

    Many years ago a friend of mine had a pitman arm shortened and welded for his vintage road racer. It was done under the relevant racing body rules, certified welder, magnafluxed and x-rayed, and deemed 'safe' to use on the car.

    First race, first tight corner, the pitman arm snapped at the weld and the vintage racer flipped several times before skidding along the track upside down...

    Fortunately, he'd also complied with another 'new rule' that had been recently introduced, requiring a rollbar be installed on his vintage racer, or his head would have been smeared all down the track. All he lost was the new multi carb manifold on his Merc engine and the entire top of his helmet, ground off by the track surface.

    he was not a happy chap.

    Cheers, Glen.
     
  4. Dan Timberlake
    Joined: Apr 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,530

    Dan Timberlake
    Member

    "I infer that it's cheaper to forge a part than it's to have a human weld it."

    Seems like manufacturing economies have changed over the years too.
    IFS started with some pretty complicated welded and bolted assemblies.

    Stamped steel welded control arms were pretty much standard both on the prestigious and high production models in the 60s.

    Now, Based on what I see hanging immodestly underneath the cars in front of me even some economy cars have forged or cast one piece aluminum control arms. I do think one factor may be the price of corrosion resistance. Gotta be serious about prep and painting to survive under a car in New England. Although I think the plated steel Bundy brake line is still standard, and that is a time bomb with a fuse about 10 years long up here.
     
  5. If it ain't broke, don't break it.


    Major companies don't put welds there because they engineer all the parts from scratch, they aren't trying to use parts from car A on car B with a link from car C and get it all put together in a garage someplace.
     
  6. Pops1532
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 544

    Pops1532
    Member
    from Illinois

    I've welded and/or fabricated steering components, upper and lower control arms, front and rear suspension brackets, roll cages, frames on street cars and stock cars. I've welded and/ fabbed/or modified heavy equipment,equipment trailers, narrowed trailer axles, aerial platforms (manlift) that my and co-workers lives depend on, and many other things over the past 35 or 40 years. Never, NEVER had a weld break. I wouldn't give a second thought to welding a pitman arm.

    That's not to say I'd trust someone else's welds on critical parts.
     
  7. lawman
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,665

    lawman
    Member

    I second that !!!! LOL
     
  8. whtbaron
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 579

    whtbaron
    Member
    from manitoba

    Ditto- the ones that won't be responding to this thread are the ones that concern me.
     
  9. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    Welded steering components are illegal in many States. Putting "Nanny" politics aside, I think they would have a somewhat good reason for these laws.

    Just because you want to be a fearless rebel doesn't give you the right to put other people's lives in danger.
     
  10. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Dang ! the world is sure full of arm chair engineers and Hot Rodders ain't. Can't build anything from scrach just sign checks.
     
  11. Seen this done many times,but not sure I could in good consciousness trust the repair.
     
  12. shawnspeed
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 165

    shawnspeed
    Member
    from Attica Mi

    OEM manufactures do use fabricated suspension parts early in the development process....have done it for several...also most of those roundy round cars use fabricated steering knuckles....so they can put the geomitry they are looking for in them...and I would assume other critical path items are also welded...hell the off road trophy trucks have to have similar fabbed/welded parts in there suspension as well...all the suspension stuff I have welded over the years has ben tig welded, with the large commercial (lincoln/miller) welders....You must know your limitations...and frankly if you have to ask is it safe, YOU probably should not do the welding.......Just my 2 c...Shawn
     
  13. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    GregCon
    Member
    from Houston

    There are all sorts of race car parts that are welded....but then we all know the life expectancy of race parts. If a Baja racer loses a control arm, he's not likely to drive over a sidewalk and kill a few nuns on their way to Starbucks.

    Any weld is a potential failure point. How do you eliminate all the questions over weld quality? You eliminate the welds.

    When you are making one or two parts, you weld them up. Not because they are better, or stronger, but because that is what is economically feasible.

    A welded Pitman arm might be "strong enough" and never break. If I had "no insurance and nothing to lose", I'd probably run one too if I had to. But I'm not going to find myself in front of a judge explaining why he should be a real man like me and tell the nuns I ran over to go piss off.

    The bottom line is I wouldn't run a welded Pitman arm because it's a lame thing to do. A real man, a real hotrodder, would find a way to do it right .
     
  14. spiderdeville
    Joined: Jun 30, 2007
    Posts: 1,134

    spiderdeville
    Member
    from BOGOTA,NJ

    Stick welding gets ONE SPOT crazy hard
     
  15. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am not an armchair engineer, or an internet welder, so I am not providing anecdotal information, I am providing DATA. All of my welds: certification grade, Magnafluxed. All of my experience: real-world. All of my education: engineering, automotive engineering, master's level+, ivy league. All of my customers: alive, mostly healthy, happy, and pleased with my work.

    The sky is not falling, so can the paranoia, and the insulting rhetoric.
     
  16. That's exactly why you should keep doing it. And others who aren't so comfortable with their craft shouldn't


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  17. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The guy who welded the pitman arm for my Tbucket probably learned to weld 70 years ago. It's been over 35 since he welded it. He had me cut a V into the end that came on the VW bus and cut the Ford half to a point so it fit in the V and then grind them so he could weld them from the bottom of the V that I ground in them. That was in the early 70's when everything was done with a stick welder. I might not have it done now but it was pretty commonplace to do it then.
     
  18. Well said sir!
     
  19. I had 2 pitman arms (PA) joined as one. I built a 1938 Caddy Opera coupe (SR) and installed a late 60's Eldorado steering column. The welding was done by a professional. He made a "vee" groove (when the 2 PA's are aligned) at the half way point on both front half of the 1938 Caddy PA and the back half of the late 60's Eldo PA. The welder started at the narrow end (bottom) and made multiple passes until he reached the top. I drove the car for a few years; then sold it and the new owner got it on the road and had no trouble.
    However, I do recommend having the PA checked for cracks via "magaflux. My .02.
     
  20. spiderdeville
    Joined: Jun 30, 2007
    Posts: 1,134

    spiderdeville
    Member
    from BOGOTA,NJ

    The Local Unrodder panic queens opine about modified parts
     
  21. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,214

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    Man oh man, I guess I got what I asked for.... Hhahahahahahahaha.
     
  22. Deuce Daddy Don
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,544

    Deuce Daddy Don
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There's welders---Then there's welders!
    Done mine in 1972,----Thats 300,000 miles ago!
     
  23. The drag link in my Uni is welded and I run it flat out on the flats, I guess I bet my life on it. I trust the welder though. ;)
     
  24. I've seen some crazy shit welded up over the years, mainly on 220V high-amp arc welders. One guy I knew would scare up the right rods, do all the prep work himself and take his time with it.

    In this day and age, I'd probably take anything welded-up with an unknown pedigree and run it over to my NDT guy and have him recommend on how to check it.

    Bob
     
  25. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    Heh heh.

    Oh, and done right=safe.
     
  26. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,906

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    If it has zero cracks , just get the thing Heat Treated.

    I've used "cut'n'shut" axles that were heat treated before with zero issues.

    My road-race Corvette had a welded pitman arm that was also heat treated [ I drove that at speeds up to 176mph regularly ]

    The pitman I had wasn't lengthened though [ it had a splined centre welded into it, for a steering box swap ]
     
  27. Very well put! My sentiments exactly!!!! I have had my life depend on my own welds mant times in my 33 year career as a Union Ironworker and I would NOT weld a pitman arm! Tis just plain stupid!!! R~R
     
  28. Pops1532
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 544

    Pops1532
    Member
    from Illinois

    Gregcon,The judge might be more interested in why you didn't use your brakes rather than why your poorly welded pitman arm broke.

    If you're worried about being in front of a judge you better not be driving something that has any modifications.

    The real bottom line is people that don't know how to weld shouldn't weld critical parts. I'll even go so far as to say some guys that think they can weld shouldn't weld critical parts, but for those that are qualified it's not a problem.

    Here's one that will freak out the naysayers.....my dad cut and welded a couple of drag links together, for a truck no less.
    Of course he was a qualified welder. Back in the day he welded tube airplane frames for two airplane manufacturers.
     
  29. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    well said. I liked the "Consumer reports" post Frank quoted as well.
     
  30. blue 49
    Joined: Dec 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,820

    blue 49
    Member
    from Iowa

    I did one once. Cut it, deeply veed it, pre-heated it and mig welded it. It looked good through the helmit and finished off. I decided it wasn't worth the risk and scrapped it. In hindsight, it would have been linked to the flat plate steering arms at the spindles and I think it was stronger than they are.

    Blue
     

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