Register now to get rid of these ads!

Mythbusters: an unscientific statistical analysis of rod building styles, circa 55/60

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by falcongeorge, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Nope not at all. But if you use magazines to judge hot rod history than skate boarding, motor cycles, speed boats, go karts are all part of it, aren't they.

    I just used you for a chance to throw my $.02 out there.

    Do ya feel used? :D
     
  2. classic gary
    Joined: Sep 24, 2009
    Posts: 504

    classic gary
    Member

    somebody want to do a '61-'66 thread?
     
  3. F-6Garagerat
    Joined: Apr 12, 2008
    Posts: 2,652

    F-6Garagerat
    Member

    I didn't think so, just didnt want to say something stupid before I checked my facts, lol. Yes I feel a bit used but it's been a while, gotta take what you can get,lol.
     
  4. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    There was a thread started some years ago on that era, because it is so different than late 50s. I just can't recall the year range in the title, so I can never find it.

    Lots of cool stuff then. One car that was built in my town in that era was just re-found and bought back by the original builder..dates from 66/67 or so, with a near new GTO tri-power drivetrain from a new car wrecking yard where he worked then.
     
  5. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    One thing is that you said you looked in Hot Rod Magazine. I found that east coast magazines had much different cars than LA based Hot Rod
     
  6. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    Here's my question:

    Did styles drive the magazines, or did the magazines drive styles?

    Sorry, but there's no way that magazine coverage can calculate the quantity of different styles that existed in any given time period. Too much editorial license interference.
     
  7. Rich,
    You make a good point here. One thing to remember about Hot Rod or other California based magazines of the era is that they didn't get out much. If you wanted your car featured you pretty much had to get it to them for a photo shoot.

    Not to take anything away from the SoCal guys so don't take it this way but part of what makes SoCal the "Hot Rod Mecca" is promotion. In the early years most of what Hot Rod produced was SoCal because they were SoCal based. Logistics and liquid assets played a big role in what was published, there was a lot of hot rodding going on all over the place.


    Mike I think that magazines did a lot to shape the styles of what was being built but it would have been after the fact. Let's assume that you are Sam Barris and you chopped a Merc. You Merc lands in a magazine of whatever masthead you choose. I read the magazine and shazaaam, I got to build me a car just like that.

    Or take it a step further, let's assume that you are the first guy to build a small block chevy and the local magazine editor hears about it and has to blow one apart and show how to hot rod one, it was already done but now I read the article about your small block and gotta have one just like it and now i know how to do it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  8. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    In regards to the whole "what happened in reality" vs "what was in the magazines" thing, look at modern Tuner cars. Pretend you don't hate them for a sec.

    The ones in the magazines are worth looking at. There's cohesion. The finish is nice, engine bays are neat and orderly, as a whole it's a worthy car. If it wasn't showy then it had to be one hell of a race car. Now look at what the average Tuner guy put on the street. Big pieces of shit. Body kits half assed and hung crooked. Primer. No proportion. Too many stickers. No one will ever appreciate those things. There's no style or cohesion. They are the "it's your car do what you want" of the tuner world and therefore no one cares.

    I'm grateful that we have the cream of the crop from then to influence us now. It's the reason there are so many fantastic cars in a sea of "meh". Too many people have to strive for mediocrity as it is. :p
     
  9. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,244

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hammer, meet nail:cool:

    I also tend to believe that what we see today in the era we like most draws some serious talent that simply didn't exist or was very rare. Something as simple as the population numbers can have an effect on that, also TV has driven some desire to simply build. How many garages have heavy sheet metal equipment in them now? More than in 1958 or 1963. Hell even in the 80s. Mediocrity? Not quite a pandemic like stupid, but enough to notice. Referencing the pro street days, cars with jumbo tires hanging out of the wheel wells calling it that. Unsafe kits jammed in with no regard for structure. Oh yeah, like some of the dreaded RR cars today?

    It's been said that there's more chopped Mercs than ever existed, more fuelie Chevys, and clearly more Model As on Deuce rails and Deuce hiboys. Why? Because in the end that shit really is kool. If you like it why not go for it. The inspiration falcongeorge used is a great start, but picking the right 6 numbers some week wouldn't be bad either:eek:
     
  10. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Well, I KNEW the "thats just what the magazines wanted to cover" excuse would come up as soon as the lack of highboys was mentioned, thats why I also used photos from the "readers write" and "for sale" section. Oh wait, let me guess, they rejected the ad if the car wasn't "cool", right? FWIW, the two sections I just mentioned made up about 50% of the sample, heavy on the "readers write" section.
    And P&B, yea, primered cars were even thin on the ground in the "readers write" section. Non-existant in the features.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  11. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    Rich, I know you are not talking about "east coast cars" in that post, but it brings up a point that is rarely talked about...

    The so called "east coast" seems to have been done all across the country, as well as Australia, etc.

    Take a look at many survivors on the hamb, and you see the somewhat similar builds all over. Take the Kisam 32 3w for example. Not built anywhere near the east. there are many more on here.
     
  12. According to a recent article the first primer car was the Eastwood and Barakat car in '82. But I know for a fact that all traditional cars were flat black. :rolleyes:
     
  13. I'm on thin ice here because I wasn't there and I really don't know crap about this.
    But did the magazines ever really cover what the average Joe built? The leading edge guys got covered for good reason. Starting trends, advancing the craft forward.
    Fast forward, could the average guy afford the 60-80k cars being featured today?
    Legit question, is it about backyard builders or trendsetting money guys?
    I'm not stating anything. Just questions.
     
  14. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Numbers. Used Froghawks cleaned up version of my table. Nice work.

    [​IMG]

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
    Clearly, full-fendered cars were the number #1 choice, and by a LARGE margin. Honestly, this caught me by surprise. As the HAMB is predominately fender-free, its interesting to take a quick look at the numbers with the full-fendered cars out of the mix. Channeled cycle fendered cars constituted 34% of the sample nationwide, 20% in CA, channeled fenderless 38% nationwide, 15% in CA, unchannelled cycle fender 18% nationwide, 13% in CA, and highboys 10% nationwide, and 8% in CA. Note that next to the full fendered style, channeled cycle fender cars (or what the BS history revisionists like to call "east coast cars" are the most popular CA build style.
    Again with the full-fendered cars out of the mix, channeled cars nationwide constitute 72% nationwide, vs 28% for unchanneled fenderless cars.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  15. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Where you are REALLY on thin ice is that you havent read carefully. Go back and read my opening post carefully, and then look at the clarification on post #40.
     
  16. II FUNNY
    Joined: Jul 31, 2010
    Posts: 1,838

    II FUNNY
    Member

    I think you should start a pre 33 poll with the same choices on the HAMB here. If there already is one just ignore me:D

    MELTDOWN DRAGS
    JULY 19&20 2014
     
  17. This caught me by surprise as well. I always see in my mind, guys yanking the fenders(and anything else they can) to go faster. But I know that common practice was to stick 'em back on Sunday evening for Mondays drive to work/school.
     
  18. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    which is exactly why I used Hot Rod only. Using regional magazines would potentially skew the mix. I didnt use R&C either, as they had more of a So-Cal bias in the fifties, and that also could have potentially skewed the numbers.
    The idea of doing this isn't that you include every car that was ever built, the idea here is to get a balanced sample that represents a reasonably accurate cross-section of what was out there at the time. I am gonna put this next part in REAL big print, and there seems to be a lot of difficulty with reading comprehension on here. THIS IS WHY I ALSO USED THE "READERS WRITE" AND "FOR SALE" SECTIONS AS PART OF THE MIX. IT BALANCES ANY POTENTIAL DISTORTION OF THE NUMBERS DUE TO EDITORIAL BIAS.
     
  19. My question was OT. I was referring more to what mags covered than what guys built.
    Good on you for taking the time and effort.
     
  20. When I was a kid in the 70s-80s, I didn't dream of building what the local guys were building(although I did really like a lot of local cars), I dreamed about what I saw in magazines and at the Autorama. And I did come from an affluent town, plenty of guys with money to build nice rides. The beaters(equivalent to today's rat rods)didn't get much respect. Especially if they were ugly AND slow.
     
  21. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I notice on my post where I posted the actual numbers, it deleted all my extra spaces and screwed everything up. its 'readable" but not easy. I will try to fix this up later today. Maybe I can do the table as a word doc and insert it or something. The headings that denote body style are all shifted over to the left margin, and its a bit of a mess. give me some time, I will see if I can come up with something tidier and easier to read.
     
  22. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I think most of the problem is guys mistakenly look at fifties build styles with a distorted, forties era lakes bias. The reason fenderless highboys were popular under SCTA lakes sanction in the forties was the fact that a channeled car was moved up a class.
     
  23. Big thanks for doing the number crunching....regardless of what it shows.
     
  24. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    This poll covers all pre-'35 body styles that appeared in magazines during the '55-'60 time period, not '55-'60 body styles.
     
  25. Hellfish
    Joined: Jun 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,626

    Hellfish
    Member

    Well, I am a biostatistician with expertise in sampling and I don't consider it valid. :) Lots of problems including that 55% of only one magaizine is insufficient. Not only is it only about half, but because that editor may have had a publication bias towards certain styles, and you may have had a bias in buying/keeping those issues BUT I'm enjoying your analysis anyway. :) Thanks for doing it.
     
  26. Anyone done any research on fender laws of the period? Seems like the overwhelming majority of rods built in the 40's - early '50's were fenderless, then something changed...laws, styles, or both?
     
  27. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    #1 has been dealt with repeatly, and I would have thought a biostatistician would have AT LEAST taken the trouble to read all the bolded posts, if nothing else.:rolleyes: The irony is, if anything, the "readers write" and "for sale" sections probably shifted it slightly towards the "channeled" side of the scale.
    As far as any bias in issues I bought or kept, believe me when i tell you that 1) when I see ANY fifties era magazine that I dont already have, I buy it without even cracking it open, and I SURE AS HELL dont throw ANY of them out!! REALLY! ARE YOU SERIOUS?! Throwing out a fifties hot rod mag??!!
    Honestly the editorial bias bullshit is done and put to bed. Give it up.
    Where the sample size would potentially cause issues is in comparing categories that are close in regions where the sample size is small. For instance, I wouldn't draw the conclusion that unchanneled full fendered cars were more popular than channeled fenderless cars in the west, based on a 5% spread.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  28. II FUNNY
    Joined: Jul 31, 2010
    Posts: 1,838

    II FUNNY
    Member

    No, I meant a current poll of HAMBers vehicles pre 35 (I thought it was 33)
    Is there such a poll? With the same channeled unchanneled fendered no fenders.

    MELTDOWN DRAGS
    JULY 19&20 2014
     
  29. froghawk
    Joined: May 9, 2008
    Posts: 857

    froghawk
    Member


    I think some of the totals are off.

    Interesting survey, however, and certainly more valid than most of our knee-jerk assumptions about history.

    Thanks for taking the time and posting!
     
  30. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    In most places, fender laws went into effect in the early fifties, so they definately influenced building styles, which is the entire point of this whole thread. The point of this exercise isnt what anyones favorite build style is, or which is "best", its about what was being built in the era when overheads replaced the flathead, which is representitive of what most HAMBers are building, or attempting to build. Also noteworthy, both chanelled cycle fender and channeled fenderless cars outnumbered unchanneled cycle-fender cars by a wide margin. If guys "wanted" to build fenderless highboys, but were put off by fender laws, then cycle fender highboys should show up as a high percentage. They constitued 11% of the sample, and opposed to 22% for channeled cycle fendered cars, and 24% for fenderless channeled cars.
    Realistically, before I posted this, I knew there were going to be a few guys that had an axe to grind. I expected that. The spread between channeled and unchanneled cars is big enough that its not going to be affected by sample size.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.