Alright. Long story short- I "inherited" Great Grandpa's 1948 Dodge B-1. It had a toasted motor. In high school I pulled the motor out but couldnt find a suitable replacement. Drug it home stuffed it in one of Dad's sheds. Fast forward 15 years. Pulled the 'ole truck out of hibernation, and hauled it 600 miles home where it again went into the garage for another year. I found a rebuilt longblock from a later Chrysler car that my sister in law rebuilt in high school- but it was just a long block and still needed a lot of assembly / parts- I don't have money for that right now. Fast forward another year to now. Picked up a '39 Dodge VC and a '41 Dodge WC from a neighbor and with some tinkering, I've got the '39 running like a top! Unfortunately, they are both ROUGH. My '48 is decent. QUESTION: will the motor from the '39 fit / work in my '48 with a fluid drive trans?! Some pics of the offenders: Resting spot. So what information do y'all need to figure this out? Thanks!
I'd like it if I could, but I've got a couple of standard transmissions that I could use instead. Been forever since I looked at it but it seems like the fluid drive trans was WAY longer? Also, the torque converter part was really confusing for an 11th grader to take apart, so who knows what I did to it when I pulled the other motor out. Seems like I left the TC attached to the crankshaft when I dropped the crank out of the bottom of the engine...
If you swapped motors with floor shift manual trans, worst case scenario is you might need to get a longer driveshaft? Search the HAMB for more fluid drive info. Also Alpar has a good explanation. I don't think any rocket science here. Maybe it's time for a T-5 so you can keep up with traffic. My recollection is that fluid drive/hy drive is slow. Fluid drive still uses standard trans. You just get more flexiblity as to what gear you have to be in at anytime. Still have to downshift with clutch to go up a hill, etc.
I'd like to keep it as stock as possible... Couple of reasons for that. #1, Dad would probably shoot me if I hacked it up, #2, I don't have the money for upgrades like a T-5 (teacher), and #3, I have a manual trans out of a '51 Fargo and these two older Dodge trucks I can use parts from if I need to. Eventually I might build one of the older trucks and it could have a 6BT for all I care.
Go to the Pilothouse site on P15-D24.com for lots of info. I'll bet someone there has THE answer for you. Your fluid drive crank has 8 holes, non-fluid drive has 4 holes. The fluid drive has a different (longer) bell housing and the trans has a longer input shaft. I have a fluid drive in my '53 1/2 ton and the only complaint I have ever had is that if you park it in gear, on a hill, and your parking brake doesn't work - get ready to chase your truck down the hill. I suspect you have more cubic inches in your '49 engine than the engines in the old trucks. You could probably take the two old trucks, make one good one and trade the rest for a running engine for the '49, plus cash.
I'm jealous of your parts availability, looking at your pics. For example those rear pickup fenders even in that condition are $$$. From what I read at Alpar (you need to read it, too) the first fluid drive coupler is self contained and takes the place of the flywheel. There is still a clutch so I assume you'll be using the fluid drive assy, fluid drive bellhousing and the standard trans that goes with it. Yes, this assy must be longer than just standard trans no fluid drive. Driveshaft length to be determined later. The alpar article mentioned that a fully functioning e brake is mandatory since the fluid drive will allow the car to roll away.
Yup- Dad (who learned how to drive in the '48 when he was 8) Has many stories to tell about the non-functioning parking break. I'll check Alpar and the Pilothouse websites out, thanks!
Not being a smart aleck but is the first green truck shown the B-1? It has wheels from a heavier model maybe its a B2B or B3? Are you keeping the heavy axles? There's a HAMBer here that's desperate for a pair of those larger front drums. I own several trucks like the ones shown, 1940 VC panel, 3 40s WC pickups a 1950 B1B, and a 52 pickup. My yard looks like yours, weeds trucks and all! We Dodge guys need to stick together. Whatever help I can give you let me know.
If I understand correctly, the green one is a B-1, D(?). It's a one ton. The pics of the 2 older trucks in the field is where I found 'em... Wish I had that much space! I may have a set of front drums on the '51 Fargo cab I have up in Canada, I believe they were the same bolt pattern but it seems like they were waaayyyy beefier than the drums on my 1 ton (the Fargo was a 2 ton or so dump truck). Thanks for the offer of help, I'm sure I'll take you up on it!
After thinking about it I'm pretty sure I'm going to try putting the running engine in the green truck. It needs to be pretty much "original". The '39 and '41 I really don't care how much they get hacked up. Did some digging, and according to the serial number on the engine I have a t105, which I think is a 201 cid. Going to go out this morning and make a game plan for engine removal and take a closer look at the bell housing, will compare it to the fluid drive trans and the trans I have from the Fargo.
The fluid drive needs an 8 bolt crackshaft flange to deal with the extra weight and rotating mass of the fluid drive unit. To my knowledge Fluid drive was only installed behind 230 engines fitted withthe proper crakshaft. The 201/218 did nto have the 8 bolt. otherwise the engine should be a bolt for bolt swap, 35 and newer assuming they are all 23 1/2 inch Dodge (D), Dodge Truck (T), Plymouth (P)engines. You mentioned Canada, all MOPARS, Fargos included built in Canada used the 25 inch long engine common to Chrylser/DeSoto here in the states. Your 48 looks like a good place to start. Do you still have that engine??? Probably a 230. You can make a 230 by swapping the rotating parts of the 230 into a 218 block, as the stroke was the only difference between the 218 /230. The 201 has a 3 1/8 bore. Your one tonner would be much happier with the 230 especially if you want to use the Fluid drive, which on a truck is probably a good idea. Or take a look around the country side for a Massey Harris combine for chrysler Industrial engines. They used both the 23 1/2 inch 230's and the 251/265 25 inch long versions. The long ones will bolt in with a relocation of the radiator to the front of the support, and perhaps some front cross member surgery to accommodate the vibration damper of the longer block. Small airports that still have Clark Tractor airplane tugs also have both styles of Ind engines, I would spend the time looking for a 230 at least, them fix up the black truck for your mechanics assistant.
Drat. My 48 had a 25", the 39 has a 23... I have the engine from the '48 but is isnt the original. Apparently grandpa would rather change engines than oil so it was on its third motor when I got it. I also have a dead motor from the Fargo. Both of these are beyond repair, but have some salvageable parts. I ALSO have a rebuilt long block from an early '50's chrysler car that is a 25" er (the spitfire), but it needs lots of bits before it could be a runner. I was hoping for a quick way to get at least one of the trucks driveable, doesnt look like that will happen. Still thinking about trying to drop the smaller motor in the one ton... We'll see.
You can probably put the 39 engine and trans in without a lot of problems. You would need to redo the front motor mounts. The rears are on the bell housing and should mate up with the frame on the later truck OK, but you would then need to adjust how to hold up the front. It would make for a pretty slow truck as the rear end is probably a 4.56 or close by. since engine swaps were so easy within the line and stuff was so cheap, that was the modus operendi back then. Burning oil, losing compression, making the death rattle?? Find a newer wreck and make the swap.
My '53 B4B with fluid drive still has its original 23", 218 engine (8-bolt flange), so some trucks did come with 218's and fluid drives. A Dodge car fluid drive has the 230, which would fit your truck (you would need to use your truck's throttle linkage). I have seen more than one running 230 on the Pilothouse & P15-D24 website that were free to reasonable. I would go there and ask. Beware to use the correct head gasket, water pump gasket, thermostat housing and thermostat if you start changing things (I forget what year they changed, but they are different between my '53's and 23" '49's. IMHO, make one truck out of your two old ones and trade/sell extra parts to get your '49 and your other old truck on the road. Good luck with your choice.
Decision time. The motor is coming out. Everywhere I look at Blackie, I just see more things that need fixing. The motor will *probably* fit in my '48, although it is smaller than what it's supposed to have in it. Look at that! It fits in my garage! Yanked the rad before I pulled it in though. 10 minutes worth of work and the trans is out. 2.5 hours later, I have the engine ready to come out. Had several stuck bolts I had to cut off, and lots of things needed to be taken off to get to other things. Not like my old Ford- I had that motor OUT in under 45 minutes IIRC. If it fits in the '48, great. I'll drive it while I rebuild the spitfire motor right, then I can swap them out. At that point, I can decide what to do with the older 2; build one, make a rat rod, or who knows. Right now I'm thinking I'll probably sell them because I just don't have the space right now- I have 6 vehicles but only room to park 4...
Way better to finish the Chrysler engine. The 39 is just too small and low powered especially with fluid drive.
Ta-da! Motor out. I would say that clutch is fragged... Dug out the '48 and pulled it up by the house. Had my 9 year old "drive" it- pretty funny watching him run the armstrong steering, not to mention you have to spin it 4 times before things start to go. By that point, he's clear on the other side of the road and doing his darndest to spin it back! Man. I have a lot of crap. And now for the bad news... I thought I had 2 transmissions with the green truck- the fluid drive and the one from the Fargo cab. Unfortunately, I only have the fluid drive, and it's input shaft is about 4 inches longer than it needs to be for the regular bell housing. More bad news- the clutch pack from the fluid drive is NOT the same as the older trucks, meaning I still don't have a clutch. Grinding screeching halt time. I will price out a clutch tomorrow but its not in the cards to buy one right now. I was thinking I could try setting the engine in place to see how far off I am but I just realized I can't really do that without the clutch and the bellhousing attached. Ug.
...that black truck would fit nicely on my trailer... For the clutch/PP, ask at your local parts house(s) if they have a local rebuilder to send parts to. .
What do you need for the Chrysler engine? Dodge actually used the Chrysler block in some larger Dodge trucks. It should be practically a bolt in deal. Check your frame, there may be motor mount holes already drilled 2" ahead of the stock ones.
The Chrysler motor needs assembled. Basically I have a rebuilt short block- need oil pump, all gaskets, manifolds, carb, dizzy, starter, etc. etc. It's the right length to drop into my '48 already, no mods necessary. Just don't have the $$$ right now for the rest of the parts (mainly the gaskets & oil pump, the rest of the parts I can probably steel off of my other 2 (now 4) Dodge engines...). 73RR- Right now I'm leaning towards selling / trading the 2 older ones, would be most interested in part trade plus cash if someone had a good complete and running motor and maybe a few other bits (brakes) that I could drop in the '48.
that's a nice lookin' 1-ton ya got thar, even has the custom tailgate ya got yerself a pickle thar, determining which engine/transmission setup to go with. I have a 218/3spd fluid drive sitting in a rolling chassis, and I do not know the condition of the fluid drive nor have I done a lot of research on parts availability. As I've tackled similar projects, I'm leery of that fluid drive coupling as I can just see it leaking like a sieve when I put some pressure on it, and then not be able to find any replacement parts to make it work. Also, I've had the misfortune of rebuilding a tractor motor and within a year the block developed a crack in the water jacket. So on the next motor I rebuild, I'll see about doing a magnaflux crack check to avoid future headaches. So as much as I applaud your decision to make the truck work with your existing parts, ya might want to do a little tedious work here & there to insure that ya don't have a disaster on your hands. BTW I'm surprised ya ain't been flamed yet for talkin' bout a truck that ain't gonna be a hot rod...some folks on the 'net can be reeeal rick-pays about this. If'n ya can find a decent 230, some mods can be done to boost hp output, such as increasing the CR to about 8:1, switching to a split manifold exhaust, upgrading to a 2bbl carb, and so forth. The flathead also responds well to a 180F thermostat and the introduction of a PCV system that'll help keep the crankcase oil cleaner. Also, if replacing the engine, know that there are difference between the years. Different heads/blocks because of a bypass thermostat passage & rear main seal designs are the two big ones (I think up to '51 was one style, after '51 they changed to more efficient designs). The folks over at the Pilot-House forum can help out there (some more than others)
Why not up grade your 48 with newer running gear? It doesn't matter what powers it just so it goes down the road. Put the stock engine back in the shed and save it. I'm a old mopar guy and my 41 dodge panel loved going down the road with the free 350 olds motor that's put in it back in 81. Always got the same feedback "At least it's going down the road!" Nobody cared when I stuck a 22R Toyota motor in my buddies 31 model A!
Mainly to keep my Dad from pitching a fit, although now that the titles in my name... I've been reading about T-5 swaps, and I think that with some updates to a stock flathead (HEI ignition, carb / exhaust, 12v conversion) and a 5 speed it could be a pretty decent truck. I have absolutely NO desire to drop a big v8 in it. The older trucks, however, are *prime* candidates for a rat rod. It would be a blast to do one of them up, I just don't see me having time or money anywhere in the near OR distant future. Too many other projects to finish first!
A bit off topic, does anyone know if the different distributors will swap out IE: IAT for a IAP. 1950 Dodge wayfarer coupe. flathead 6 23" long head. email [email protected]
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