The forum situation is deteriorating faster than it is coming together. There is a seemingly constant sense of angst about it, a sense of being ambushed by the new and contemporary. Some people would call it "paranoid," but they would be the dumb o... <BR><BR>To read the rest of this blog entry from The Jalopy Journal, click here.
Lots of good points. Is there any way to get that last picture "drop our drawers" as a poster, that would be awesome hanging up in the garage.
Good on you Ryan for allowing a discussion on the subject and not shutting down the threads. Its an interesting subject worth discussing
The important element for me is that a car should be used.........driven often and far. Sometimes we hold "survivors" in such high esteem that we forget that in their present state they are simply not usable and are no better than those $ 1Million dollar garage queens we see on Barrett- Jackson. A survivor that is simply kept under a cover would be disrespectful to the original intent of the builder . The roadster with the nerf bars to me is that kind of car. While it is cool, and has some magazine history, it simply does not fit the body of the current owner. So he has two choices, either sell it to a smaller statured person, or modify it to fit his own purposes. I also made a comment that for us to insist these cars are too important to change in any way is very much like the comments restorers make when they see us changing a car from the way Henry made it in the first place. We poo poo those old fuddy duddies as being archaic, but we are doing exactly the same thing sometimes. Yes, there are certain cars I would love to see stay the way they originally were built.......Norm's T for example. But not every car that was built is in that same category. I fully expect my own Sons to modify my 27 and my rpu when I pass, and that is fine with me, they will be theirs then to do what they feel is right. Don
It's nice to see the old builds taking center stage on hamb for a few days, regardless of what gets changed on them. That stage time is good, because it does expose some viewers to get a look at the early days, and how different each car was, with some good, and some bad ideas. It's our history, captured in steel, not pics of a modern adaptation of what the current trends see as "the old ways". Great threads as far as I can see. Rebirth of the original hamb vision? I don't know, but it's a good read with a bunch of other old builds showing up on those threads
Document how it was and change as you like. If someone does not agree they should have bought the car or offer to buy it from you. See you in the river.
I run into many guys who say the same thing..."Those guys on the HAMB are a bunch of Traditional Nazis!". I usually respond with," It's a Traditional website for Traditional style cars...Maybe you are in the wrong place." As far as changing a surviver. I think it depends on the car and ,most of all, it's history. I think it would be wrong to change the Hirohata,SoCal Coupe,Doan Spencer Roadster,and many of the other "famous" historical cars. They are a minute passing in time. Having said that,not every car that was built "back in the day",has any relevance on the past and it's place in time. Some are just old cars. Making them more current,drivable,safer,or just,asthetcly pleasing wouldn't be disrespectful. I think many of the cars built in the recent years by Cole Foster,Jimmy White,Gambino,Troy Ladd,and many of the other quality builders out there today,will be sought after cars,hopefully survivers someday,but not historical cars. I think there's a huge difference between cars built buy their owners on a shoestring budget,with the knowlege available at the time and bound buy money and talent. Many of those cars were crude,rough,experimental. Good example is the "Little monster" Model A found by JustplainJ. It had a history from the east coast,magazine coverage,etc. But,it is horrible by todays standards. Should it be updated? I don't see why not. It's just another car built 70yrs ago,IMO. Not a cover car,not a famous builder,not a well known history.
The Romans sexed up Greek sculptures, the Victorians did the same to gothic cathedrals. Often for the better while creating pleasurable layers of history. And the early hot rodders did it to the carefully crafted cars they adapted. What makes their work immune to further tweaking? Of course, it is sad when it is done badly. Being too precious with the given material seems to run across the hot rod grain?
I guess I'll jump back into the fire here. Haven't those cars all been changed since they were first built? And maybe it's a warped way of looking at things, but I see the "restoration" of an old car as the next step in the evolution of the car instead of a step back to the way it was.
Good point well made - you have put me on the spot there! I think it would be hard to improve, it is a unique example and would fall under Bad Bob's species of significance (perhaps where you would need to be rather arrogant to presume to improve on one of those examples).
I meant more like...painting the Hirohata blue,or putting a SBC in the Doane spencer Roadster,etc. Drastic change. All have been restored back to as close to the original as possible. There's a difference between a restoration and an update. Watson cars are known for their unique paint. You wouldn't repaint a significant car,known for it's paint and it's painter. That would be like "I removed the bubble off the Beatnik Bandit....It wasn't working for me". WTF!
Once it belongs to you,it's yours to do whatever you want with it.That being said,if everybody is against you doing something,chances are you shouldn't be doing it.
I like the Blue car. And I think that the cars that turned out to be a dead end, styling wise, are a vital part of painting the entire picture of our history. So in an ideal world, survivors like that will find owners that will appreciate them for what they are. Warts and all... They have earned that. But the reality is. We live in a world with people that would drywall the Sistine chapel...
Fear and Loathing in a Forum Land Greed and weakness are as present as they have ever been . . . I am one suave gringo and drunken curator of this here museum of adultery . . . mindless sperm meandering through the tube of lifes creation. The forum situation is deteriorating faster than it is coming together . . . we are all just ignorant traditionalist stuck in a period of paranoia. Far out! I'll be in the river with you.
Love the Poster, Please have some made up, put me on buyers list. I joined this group for possible connections with old racing buddies from my past and I'm a "car crazy" guy, always was -always will be. Hot Rods and cars of ALL types are KOOL, Like Girls, JUST DIFFERENT. If we all had same taste in cars, it would be pretty boring. I will say that some negative posts that I have read ,remind of my Mother. She gave me a piece of advice that is about the best I ever recieved. " Junior, Always Remember, There are WAY More Horses ASSes, than there are Horses" In all of my life, Business,Personal,Hobbies,Whatever, Theres always one of those people who make think about her. For that, I thank those people very much. John
For me it depends on what they're going to do with it. If either of the vehicles posted were to be modernized or returned to stock, I wouldn't agree. If either were going to be improved, refreshed, made faster/meaner, then you've got my attention.
I wonder how many changes these car would have gone through if the original owners would have kept them. Times change, Money, better parts, etc. I actually believe if Mr. Spencer had kept his roadster the car we know it to be today would not exist in its current state. He from what I understand was a racer and built them to perform. I would imagine that car would have been updated many times over. I like looking at the survivors and seeing what some people thought was cool back then. We get the same thing today with some of the creations. But today we have more knowledge and a guideline for traditional styling because of this site and the many number of guys preserving our hobby. Back then I assume it was just a dude in his garage saying man I think this looks cool. He did not log onto a web site and see how it was done. Iam very thankful for the young pioneers of our hobby. Without them and some of the crazy ideas, good and bad to some where would we be today?
I like and dislike somethings about both cars. So in the water I go. Anybody got a flotation device? I'm not a strong swimmer!
I sold my yellow '55 Chevy because I had this urge to change it all around, make it mine... and at the end of the day, I knew it would lower the value of the car and erase all of its history. So, I sell the car to a guy in LA that seemed to appreciate its history and appeared to have wanted to preserve it. Three months later I get an e-mail... About eight pictures of it. He and his neighbor spray painted it with rattle can primer. Black racing stripes over the top. Signage on the door, and fender. Black primered hood, rockers and stripes. Stickers all over the place. It made me sick. My only hopes are that an owner down the line contacts me and wants to put it back the way it was in the 60's. Yes it's his car and he can do what he wants with it. But damn. Now, in this case, a nice example of a 60's drag car was turned into a trendy "Gasser". If it was a goofy 60's drag car, and he made it a bitchen car... I'm all for that. So I think it depends on the specimen. History be damned. But then again I'm a hot rodder, not a historian. Sam
I guess now we know how the old guys that have restored an model A feel when a guy buys his baby and turns it into a hot rod? Granted there alot more of those out there than there are of rods from the 50's. I left my Olds alone because that's the was my great grandpaw left it. If I restored it, it's not the same car anymore. No more scratches or ware spots the he made before I was born. On the other hand after I'm gone and the new owner gets it, that won't mean a damn thing to them.
but that blue car is no Sistine chapel... If you want to relate it to art...to me the blue car wasn't built with an eye for design or proportion. Its well built and has a neat collection of parts, but as a whole fails. IT still has a cool factor but it isn't anything significant. They have taken something as pretty as a 32 roadster and gave it the proportions of a Jeep...to me that's not a success. Just because something is old doenst make it good. Take these 2 paintings, one paitned in 1950 and one in 2012. they are both just a bowl of fruit, while technically executed well, they aren't anything special. If you had either on your wall, people would walk past without notice. That's what the blue car is to me, a nice hot rod...but not a museum piece. Take that canvas and make a masterpiece out of it, it has the potential. Its the Picasso's, van Gogh's, the Rembrandt`s etc of the hot rod world that need to be preserved. The rest are canvas for our generation of artists to apply their craft.
It isn't just the name of the car that matters i.e. Hirohata Merc. it's the name of the person responsible for the changes. Edelbrock took an AMBR winner (1956) maybe one of 50 still in existence, and turned it into basically a clone of the thousands of Lakesters running in the 40's and 50's and nobody said a word. If his name were Vic Smith, people on this site would have been willing to tar and feather him. Would anyone complain if George Barris decided he wanted to paint the Hirohata Merc purple metalflake and put it on a Monte Carlo chassis??
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