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Late Model Flathead Rebuild

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mattrat31, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    This is a 1952 flathead out of a car. I had never rebuilt a flathead before and hope to rebuild several more throughout my lifetime. I am only 19, but I think I gave it my best shot. Here is what I was starting with. Bare block, covered in rust, lots of work to do.
     

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  2. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    I got this block totally machined by Rick Wetzel.
     

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  3. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Here are the stainless steel valves installed. I used this book for the majority of my guidelines for building this engine.
     

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  4. jefscoupe
    Joined: Apr 19, 2006
    Posts: 294

    jefscoupe
    Member

    Looking good. I'm in the same boat. First flathead (besides a Briggs lawnmower engine). I've got the same book.
     

  5. Ice man
    Joined: Mar 12, 2008
    Posts: 983

    Ice man
    Member

    I did mine many yrs ago and was always worried about low oil pressure. She ran will, but 20# was max pressure. Then a couple of yrs later I went with a mechanical gauge set because the temp gauge quit working, so i got a panel that had oil, temp, and volts. Well that's when I found out the electric gauge was also not correct, and the pressure was better then I could believe. Iceman
     
  6. Meyer
    Joined: Sep 9, 2007
    Posts: 379

    Meyer
    Member

    I have an engine at Whetsel's right now too
     
  7. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Here is a list of the torque specs that I used. These were all scattered around from different sources and also the book above from Frank Oddo. Hope this helps somebody out there.

    Main Bolts 105 ft-lbs
    Rod bolts 45 ft-lbs
    Cylinder Head bolts 60 ft-lbs (20,40,60) be sure to find a pattern
    Water pumps 23-28 ft-lbs
    Camshaft timing gear 15-20 ft-lbs
    Intake manifold bolts 12 ft-lbs followed by 24 ft-lbs be sure to follow the pattern
    Timing cover 13-18 ft-lbs
    Oil pump to block 12-15 ft-lbs
    Oil pump cover plate 7-10 ft-lbs
    Oil pump pickup 80 in-lbs
    Oil pan 15-18 ft-lbs
    Flywheel to crank 75-85 ft-lbs
    Balancer bolt 50 ft-lbs
    Exhaust manifold 25-30 ft-lbs
    Water outlet 12-15 ft-lbs
    Clutch pressure plate 17-20 ft-lbs
    Bell housing to block 37-42 ft-lbs
    Starter bolts 15-20 ft-lbs
    Gen/alternator bracket 55-70 ft-lbs
    Bell housing to block 37-42 ft-lbs
    Trans to bell housing 40-50 ft-lbs
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  8. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    The rear main seal is a rope seal that goes into an aluminum retainer. Work the rope seal into the retainer. I used a large socket to help work it in there. Trim the seal with about 1/8" to 3/16" **you be the judge** sticking out past the retainer. The book says to trim it flush, but when the crank gets torqued down this seal goes down farther into the retainer.

    Apply a thin layer of black rtv to the outside of the retainer and place it into the block.

    Install the rod bearings into the caps and the block. Apply a generous amount of lubriplate #105 engine assembly grease to all bearing surfaces before placing the crank into the block.

    The caps go on tang to tang.

    Once torqued down, I placed the balancer on temporarily and rotated the crank to make sure it would turn. Tight, yes, but it turns.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  9. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    I got a hold of some U.S.A. ford script aluminum pistons.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  10. flatheadz-forever
    Joined: Jun 16, 2011
    Posts: 501

    flatheadz-forever
    Member
    from new jersey

    very nice and useful thread im building a 52 8rt for my model a at 16 years old hope all goes well
     
  11. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Installing the Pistons~~<O:p</O:p
    Before you install the piston assembly, wipe the cylinder clean to make sure there are no metal particles from previous machine work.<O:p</O:p
    <O:p</O:p
    We again used the lubriplate and put a generous about of it all along the inside of the cylinder wall surface.<O:p</O:p
    <O:p</O:p
    I used the four ring pistons for this project. I can’t quite remember the ring pattern used, but I have it written down somewhere, I will add this later.<O:p</O:p
    <O:p</O:p
    The connecting rods should be stamped from the ford factory, these numbers face outward when being installed in the block.<O:p</O:p
    <O:p</O:p
    I went through and labeled each cylinder with a piece of tape just so confusion wouldn’t occur later on. This usually goes much smoother when two people are doing this. One person on top placing the piston and connecting rod assembly down the cylinder, and the other person guiding the connecting rod down the cylinder from the bottom side making sure that there is no damage to the cylinder wall or the crankshaft. **Obviously a piston ring compressor of some sort will be used**<O:p</O:p
     

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  12. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Once the connecting rods are torqued down. I suggest spinning the engine around by hand a few times to make sure nothing is stuck. A good engine will be tight, but not stuck.
     
  13. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Oil Pump~~

    I just used the stock style oil pump and pickup. There are several options out there for aftermarket modern style oil systems and several modifications you can do. I just stuck with the stock style that ford intended the engine to run off of.

    The oil pump assembly is pretty self explanatory, place gaskets in the correct spot and lube the gear up before installing the assembly into the block.

    A small bolt goes through the pump and into the block to keep the oil pump in place.
     

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  14. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    The oil pump idler gear is then installed. This spins on a tiny busing, make sure that this spins freely before installing. I had one that was all jammed up, this one from another engine spun with ease.

    Lube it up, and tap it into place. The oil pump gear can slightly be seen in the picture on the far left, then the idler gear and then the crankshaft on the far right.
     

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  15. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    There is then a cover plate that goes over this area, it has a gasket. If that gasket doesn't go on, most of your oil leakage will probably come from here.
     

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  16. What camshaft are you using?
     
  17. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Next is the timing gear.

    This can only go on one way. Fortunately it has a weird bolt pattern that will only allow it to go on one way. A little retainer piece goes on behind the bolts, little tabs then get bent over once everything is torqued down. Some suggest to only bend one per bolt as they do break off after so many times, you may want to order one of these when ordering other parts for your engine just in case. This tabs keep the bolts from backing out at high velocities.

    Also there is a mark on the timing gear and a mark on the crankshaft, This takes several times to line up just right, plus the bolt pattern as previously mentioned. So there is a lot of spinning the crank over by hand to spin then cam around to get the pattern just right. May take a while, but you'll get there.
     

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  18. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Now it's time for the rope seals.

    Rick showed me how he does them when we picked up the engine. He says to have the rope seal stick past the oil pan a little bit so once everything is assembled, the crank will smash it into place and there will be no gap. I used a large socket to work it into place.

    The other tip was to cut the oil pan gasket around the rope seal like shown in the pictures.

    Before installing the oil pan, I put some jb weld around where the dipstick is. When I had this engine running in the past, the rivets would leak oil. This should keep it from doing that again. Plus it won't hurt anything.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  19. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    I used a rubber seal on the front of the crankshaft. Something that Rick does for his customers is make a bushing for the crankshaft that won't eat up the rubber seals.

    Then bolt on the timing cover with gasket and the whole nine yards.

    Then the oil pan goes up.
    Remember there is a plate that goes on the back that shares bolts with the oil pan.

    Water pumps~~
    I got these from speedway, they seem to be working just fine. The did come with a cheap gasket so we got felpro gaskets instead from the local parts store.

    Reminder, the black parts are off of the engine that was in the car and then had to be taken off and put on this car, that is why the water pumps and such are scratched up. Out of the box from Speedway, they were fresh and nice looking.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  20. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Time for paint~~

    I picked these up from lowes. They seem to be holding up just fine. No pealing or flaking so far. And it has a nice shine for a spray paint job.

    I wiped the whole engine down with wax and grease remover. Then I taped off where the heads and intake bolts on. I then placed the head and intake gaskets on and traced their shapes. this way I wouldn't have paint where I didn't want it and no bare metal would be exposed.
     

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  21. MBog
    Joined: May 2, 2006
    Posts: 556

    MBog
    Member

    Pretty nice so far. When you say "tight to turn over" define tight? Put a beam type torq wrench on the snout, what does it take to turn over? You should be in the 35-50 lb range...
     
  22. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

  23. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    EDIT: Sounds NICE! I was typing the below info when you made your last post with the youtube video. Hopefully the rope seal is where it needs to be.

    The book says flush, but you chose to leave 1/4 inch sticking out past the retainer? Seems like an awful lot, especially if you did so on both sides. If the rope doesn't get pushed down into the retainer when you torque the main, do you know where it goes? If gets between the block and the main cap, it means you may have a slightly greater bearing clearance on that rear main bearing. It could also bunch up and put some extra pressure on the crank journal, which won't damage it but could be the reason you say "Tight, yes, but it turns." A crank installed in a block, with proper clearances and no pistons/rods installed, should turn quite easily.

    My only flathead experience is with a 346 Cadillac, but I have done plenty of engines with rope seals, and I don't recall ever having left that much rope hanging out of the retainer.

    I'll leave it to the Ford flathead gurus to weigh in and see what their take is.
     
  24. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    I just kind of meant, it's not going to be easy to turn over with all of the parts rubbing on each other. But if a connecting rod is in wrong, the engine probably won't turn over. So this is a step to make sure that it does turn over before too many more parts get added into the equation. Thanks for the tip on the 35-50 lb.
     
  25. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    I'm changing 1/4 to 1/8-3/16. The main thing is that it stick past a little, then when the oil pan gasket goes on, that takes up some of that overhang.
     
  26. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Still playing with the carbs a little to get rid of some of the soot on the passenger side. It seems to be getting better, but still running rich. Christmas vacation project. Look into different jet sizes.
     
  27. flthd31
    Joined: Aug 5, 2007
    Posts: 584

    flthd31
    Member

    Great job. Nice to see a young guy building a flathead. It sounds fantastic...you must be pretty pleased!
    One bit of advice from a cautious old man. It doesn't hurt to safety wire those 5/16 bolts that can't be accessed later, like Ford did originally. Have fun.
     

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  28. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Thanks for the advice flthd31. I don't recall seeing holes in my bolts for the safety wire. Definitely something that would be good to have. Not seeing any holes, I just used the proper amount of thread-locker and tightened them down to specs.
     
  29. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    I'm a sucker for black engines.
     

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  30. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Next week I'll post how to adjust the valves, pretty simple process once you get doing it.
     

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