I finally have given into the idea of starting a build thread after the potential of making too many posts for each and every question I run into... so for now on, all of the questions and progress will be logged here. I surprisingly did not take as many pictures as I thought I did, so the image selection is quite limited This build has taken most of this year so far, not counting the year of saving up just to afford it. Now for the fun stuff: [img=http://s5.postimg.org/4ni17r0lf/DSC04272.jpg] Just about how it all looked when it came on the crate, just without the 6qt. Claimer oil pan. As you can see, flat top forged .060 pistons, decked to 0 so the quench will be set by the gasket thickness. I clayed the pistons with the 1.5 full roller stainless rockers, and ended up having to retard the cam 2 degree's by retarding the crank sprocket 4 degrees. I had .025 clearance on the intake without the retard, and .040 with the retard. There would have been more clearance if the intake valve fit in the valve relief on the piston. There was about .090 or more under the exhaust valve since it could fit into the relief. [img=http://s5.postimg.org/v9uhwq4sj/DSC04179.jpg] Got the Pro-Comp Aluminum 64cc heads, they have dual-springs rated to .600 lift. Installed with ARP bolts (with washers). Saddened me when I recently found out they were made in China... ah well, saved me some dough, hope they last! [img=http://s5.postimg.org/puh6i0nur/DSC04460.jpg] How she looked just before install. Got the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap, and some cheap $20 chrome valve covers from ebay. Bolted on with some ARP bolts, mostly for the looks, but I found them in a package for around $15, thought it would be worth it. [img=http://s5.postimg.org/spyv2mh8j/DSC04532.jpg] Installed. Running an electric fuel pump at 24psi, which is then reduced to 5.5psi by the pressure regulator. Holley 600cfm mechanical, and the edelbrock pro-flow filter. She's going to make 10.4:1 static compression, and I am running a Pro-Comp CS 280H cam (.480 lift, 230 duration). The ram horns exhaust manifolds used to be all rusted cast iron, but I let them sit in a non-toxic rust dissolver for 3 days, then painted it with some aluminum high-temp header paint. One awesome part about painting them, is if you drop oil on them, it wipes right off! Usually you have to burn oil off the manifolds. I know I have a few more images, there will be more coming, Ill edit this post when I find them.
As this is my first build, I have run into an issue... I listened to my cousin who is an excellent mechanic, but, did not take into account he has the amazing knowledge, and knows how to push the limits, AND apparently must have amazing luck since he never runs weak springs when breaking in a cam, sadly, I did not remove the center springs when breaking in my cam. [Simplifying the event] She fired right up, everything sounded good, other than bad timing, 2000 rpm's, it was 5min in when I started hearing a tap, tap, tap, tap. I turned the engine off immediately, pulled the valve cover off the passenger side head when I found a rocker loose. Thinking nothing of it, I tightened the rocker thinking it just came loose, and fired up the engine again, no more sound. But, once again, I only made through the break-in process another 5min before the engine temp's began to skyrocket, and I noticed one of the cylinders sounded a bit flat, so I turned everything off once again, and by the advice of another Hamb'er, it was time to take a look at the lifters for a chewed lobe, and this is what I found: [img=http://s5.postimg.org/hwrcu3zyb/DSC04543.jpg] As you can see, there are surface scratches on the lifter for the same rocker which was loose. The reason why there was a tapping noise was that with my 1.3 break-in full roller rockers, the pushrod for this lifter was hitting up against the head! It appears, this is the result of my bad measurement... I am not sure what this did to the cam. [img=http://s5.postimg.org/w70x5lgar/DSC04551.jpg] This is another interesting one, there was nothing wrong with the install on this one as far as I can tell. The lifter was spinning in it's bore and everything, I have no idea why it's pitting like that! Not sure what this is doing to the cam either. What do you all think? Can I continue the break-in process, or are these lifters just going to end up causing a lobe to go flat?
I have never run weak springs when breaking in a cam and have never had a problem. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Pics are to small dude... Next time please use the Manage Attachment file when posting pictures.. Thank you and have a nice evening...
looks good.. do yourself a favor . throw your air filter straight in the nearest trash can. it flow enough for idle,and just off idle, .. anything more than that, and it's over.. it will run really rich, as well, as let you down big time on performance.. no where near enough air flow.. sorry.. just trying to help out : )
Thanks, Ill do that next time, but the link under each image should route you to a full sized image anyways. Sounds like this is going to be a "Better safe than sorry" moment. You really think it looks ok?? As for the filter, I knew they were junk, but never knew they were that bad. XD
Never heard those filters were such restrictions but I never ran one cause it looks like some kinda jock strap attachment. Now we're waiting for the vid of the next break-in! Better luck, fourspeed
Ill see if I can figure out how to mount a camera, I almost filmed it, luckily I did not or you would all see my scared face once the tapping started to happen hahahah. One member recommended Isky as a good cam, I am going to check them out as of this moment. Going to try to stick with the .480lift/230 duration profile since I know that will fit after claying everything... claying everything again... that would be a pain!
New cam and lifters are needed for sure. And I agree with throwing the air filter away. Those are are junk. I too have never used weak springs for break in though I have read plenty on the subject. What break in oil are you using?
What cam manufacturer do you usually go with? I am taking a look at an Isky cam right now: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/isk-19012526/overview/ Only thing is, I cant find one with similar numbers as my old cam, so it looks like Ill just have to do a best guess, then clay the pistons to be sure it all fits... guess ill just have to buy ANOTHER gasket lol. This one has 256 duration, but less lift at .450, so it may just fit! Will have to ask for more opinions on this though... Old cam has 230 duration, and the intake valve barley fit with .040 clearance to spare! I was using some store brand (O'Reilly's) 10w-30 with comp cams additive and a little bit of edelbrock zinc additive.
I have used Crower cams for the last 30 years. http://www.crower.com/index.php/camshafts/chevy-262-400-torque-beast-hydraulic-cam.html
I am lost on this one.... Retard the cam to get more power at a specific rpm range. Fly cut the pistons to increase valve clearance.... 480 aint much... This leaves me scratchin my head....As far as break in goes? I cant read anymore.....
Those air cleaners are notorious for catching fire. Make sure you use break in oil with a high zinc content. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Posted on your other thread. Looks worse than I hoped for you. It's at least time for a new cam and lifters. They're definitely galled. The lobes and lifters have "traded molecules". Why this happened, I'm not sure. Best to talk to your cam manufacturer next time around about demensions and clearances. I'd pull the heads and look at the tops of the pistons and the valves for signs of interference. If there was, it's always possible that the piston's structural integrity has been compromised...hopefully not. And a very good chance that the valves have been damaged...in which case ya gotta pull the heads anyway to replace them or maybe have them reground. If there's no damage there, at least you'll be sure. Good idea to have the cuts in the pistons bigger than the diameter of the valves. You shouldn't have to retard the cam to gain clearance. I also never heard that those air cleaners restrict airflow. But have heard they can melt or catch on fire during a backfire. Good luck.
...I really hope not, the clacking was not loud enough for me to think that the valves were actually hitting the piston, but I will take a look anyways, you were right about not running it anymore, so this sounds like equally good advice yet again. Would I have to take the engine to a machine shop to get the reliefs properly cut? I keep thinking that I should have got smaller cc heads, and half-dish pistons, and avoided all these clearance issues. This is becoming a big pain! lol
Now knowing that my heads were made in China, who know's what's going on so that my intake valve does not fit into the relief pocket. Don't worry, I was confused also while assembling everything, just take a look at this article: http://www.carcraft.com/howto/116_0701_valve_to_piston_clearance/viewall.html Edit: I am currently looking at these as it will be INCREDIBLY difficult to get this thing to a machine shop: http://www.lindytools.com/ On the first page they have "In Head Piston Cutters for valve clearances," never even knew they existed! I only need one for the intake valve, so I think I will give them a call soon, but for now, sleep is much needed. Thanks for all the help everyone, this motor and I may just get out alive!
I understand being hesitant to have to disassemble everything. That valve relief cutter might be the solution.
I read somewhere that the complete tool was around $78, and honestly, that beats having to ask a few people if they could part with some time to come out and help me get this engine to a machine shop. Going to grab some more ARP ultra-torque, PTFE bolt seal (whatever the official name is), and some new gaskets today. Ill have the heads and cam removed probably by the end of tomorrow, got the camera's battery recharged so I can take pictures of anything which looks odd lol
Well, finally got the cam removed, it took a while, luckily 52GMC's have enough room under the hood where all you have to do is remove the radiator and front grill (total of 8 bolts), and you can pull the cam out. It's very annoying that almost all the lobes looked good, just one decided that it had enough with life apparently. I would not think much of it being shiny like that, but once you touch it, you know something is seriously wrong, feels very rough. Click on image to enlarge. So, it looks like Ill be taking the cam back to the store, never know, I might get lucky and they will take it back. Did not get to pulling the heads off yet, I guess I will be doing that either tomorrow or thursday.
The ticking noise was due to a pushrod hitting up against the head from clearance issues, but what is interesting is, the lobe which went for that pushrod was fine, this issue I think was caused from using the assembly lube which came with the cam, next time I will use something else.
I don't think it was the pre lube I believe it goes back to the time and RPM thing. I never like to stop the engine on the brake in. The RPM needs to stay at 2000. to 2300. and very up and down period. And when you adjust the valves on assembly and prime the oil system don't crank the engine a bunch you will wipe a lot of the pre lube off.JMO.
Hi, When you're running guide plates the slots in the head should not come into play at all, they will cause binding. If the slots or holes in the head are too small then you need to drill or grind them out so there is plenty of clearance. The guide plate should be the only thing aligning the pushrods, you may want to take a look at the pushrods and roll them on a flat piece of glass and make sure none are bent. Also with guide plates you need to run hardened pushrods not a stock type. When you install the new lifters make sure they spin easily in the bore. Rick
Are you running a roller cam, in a non roller block? Because you can get a wrong mix of components with a retro fit cam.
Good idea, it will be very sad if one is bent since they are very nice "pro rods." The ebay seller ran out of the normal hardened ones so he upgraded me to those for free, was quite nice! It's flat tappet, wish I got a retro-fit roller, lot less worries. Anyways, I just found out that there is a Daniel Crower Racing place right near where I work, they have a nice place there, and the guy I talked to grinds cams all the time. I brought my cam to him as I was curious as to how much it would be to get it reground, and most importantly, WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED lol. He picked up the cam and immediately said that the lifters were not spinning, and he seemed pretty surtain that there was not enough taper on the lobes, so basically it was a done deal. He showed me a Howards cam after asking me questions about my setup which was $120, and a custom grind would run me around $200. My cousin said that he usually gets custom grinds since they can be dialed in more specifically for the whole setup, it all depends on how much I get when I sell a few of my parts which are laying around. I am going to call up comp cams tomorrow, if I end up getting a new cam from them, ill sell that too, so I get my money back, and get a different brand just to play it safe.
Well, I finally got my money back for the camshaft, it was a bad grind... I now have a Howards camshaft, Isky Rev Lube, EPWI lifters, Brad Penn 10w30 oil, Lindys Piston Cutter, and a few more head gaskets. And I have to say, I have much more respect for those who have their rods running on the road, it has been 2 years now trying to just simply get an engine that works, and it honestly takes some incredible skill to sift through all the junk, and all those who try to appear honest, but have an intent to rip you off. This will most likely be my last and final try, if it does not work, I don't want to go through the crud again, just to find some reasonable quality parts, or honest people. Might have to sell it all off and move on.
The Jalopy Journal
