Hot Rods Dare to be different - 63 Scout

Somehow the Scout seems to attract shops that do crappy work... The dyno runs were great and I learned a ton but when I picked up the engine Wednesday it was apparent the shop had pulled the plug wires and removed the carbs. Back at our shop I realized they had re-installed the carbs and spacer...backwards !! They had also disconnected the linkage and failed to give me some of the parts they took off - which they didn't need to take off. I also found that they had stripped out the threads on the center bolt holes on the blower for mounting the carb spacer. Relatively easy fixes but I'm not impressed but this was not the last of it.

After 3 long nights of thrashing to get the Little Beast ready for this weekend I was ready to fire it up Friday night. This should have been a snap since back on the dyno we had set it up to start easy and idled....sorry... they had also pulled the distributor and put it back in - one tooth off. Why they took out in the first place and then tightened it down and then failed to tell me...anything - I have no idea. So late Friday night I'm watching the engine backfire through the blower (not good) and run like crap. After checking the plug wires and firing order (twice) I concluded the distributor was off.

Knowing this fix would be awkward and potentially impossible without pulling the engine due to the firewall clearance issues and... I was too tired and annoyed, I waited until this morning to tackle it. Once done it fired immediately and ran great. It also showed me that I "can" make all the changes necessary with the limited room available behind the blower and in the set back firewall... tight - very tight - but it can be done.

Taking Sunday off to prep the trailer then the Little Beast sees the track for check out and shake down passes on Monday (long weekend up here). Hopefully the weather holds

 

Nice numbers and good luck with it, just don't scatter it please.

 

Racing cancelled due to extreme high winds... bummer. Next race date is June 1&2.

Time to address some details and make some passes. Hopefully we'll have the gears changed by then

 

Sounds like you were getting down to the wire for this weekend.., a little delay will give you some breathing room... Still one of my favorite HAMB cars.....Make me want a drag car....bad!

Eric

 

Got the valve springs changed this past weekend then decided to re-live my wayward youth by completing a few unauthorized acceleration tests on the street outside of the engine shop. Yah I know...stupid... but in my defense it's an industrial park on a weekend... no traffic.

The Scout is almost scary. At least to this old fart it is... Especially considering it was on low boost and a dusty road. The little beast pulls really hard and the throttle response is crisp. Even managed to pull the wheels on a soft trans brake launch in the parking lot. (Note to self...fix the wheelie bars !!) Looking forward to the weekend.

Gear change booked for Thurs night... and go figure... rain is in the forecast for the weekend (again)

 

A cold windy day at the track is better than a cold rainy day in the trailer...

In the end the Scout performed less than what I had hoped but it was better than expected for the first time out. At least it's still in one piece and we didn't set it on fire. Better yet, I didn't set myself on fire... which I seem to have a habit of doing.

Here's the short of it. Best numbers were 10.67 / 123. The .67 is less than a tenth off my best numbers but the mph is the best I've had. The little beast leaves hard off idle with 60ft times in the 1.44/46 range and lifting the wheels about a foot, carrying them for 60+ feet. Then it falls on it's face. I'm guessing not enough fuel pump since my pressure is dropping to less then 3 pounds by 1/2 track. Also... we never did get the gears changed and I'm running out of rpm by the 1000 ft mark. A change to 4:10's will also let me use the better torque this engine is making over the last.

So in the end it worked well, we still have some changes to make and what didn't work well... we have a potential fix for it. More to come...

 

Sounds like it was a good day at the track, it went A to B and back home in one piece.

 

4.56 gears out - 4.10 gears in...
Holley "Red" fuel pump out - New Holley Hp 150 gph (140 gph @ 7 psi) billet pump...in

Ready to wail on it again June 15/16

Now if I can just remember to order the wheelie bar brackets

 

The 150 pump may not be enough either. Blower motors like lots of fuel and will melt pistons real quick if they don't get enough.

 

Cool.

 

Fully aware (Thanks) I talked to a number of tech guys (Holley, Magnaflow, Aeroquip etc) and there was a consitency that 150 gph (Freeflow) and 140/7psi would be adequate for my setup. I chose Holley simply because my local speed shop had one in stock and Holley is good enough to make their pumps the same basic dimensions and with the same fitting sizes which makes swapping them out very easy. The entire swap took me all of 15 minutes inlcuding maintenance on my filters and adding electrical connections. Of course this included the manditory run of fuel down your arm, thru your arm pit and somehow into the back of your shorts. I'm convinced there has been billions spent by the fuel companies to make sure the "fuel in the shorts" thing happens consistently... just to piss you off. As if the price of C-14 wasn't a big enough piss off.

With my old pump there was a noticable drop of pressure under load and the pressure seemed the waiver even at idle. The new pump shows a rock steady pressure and a sustained 5000 rpm blast showed little or negligable drop in pressure. I have high hopes for the new setup.

 

Ha, I just did the opposite went from 4.11's to 4.57's in the Henry J, not as much power as you though.

 

Yeah, hopefully it keeps up for you. We ran a very similar blown 355 in a '67 Camaro back in the 80's and it took 2 Holley "Blues" (biggest electric pump around back then) and 2 regulators to maintain 5-6 psi under full load. Its been awhile but think we had the 6-71 at 14% over. We burned several pistons learning that the single "Blue" just wasn't enough. It's just hard to let off when your out front.

Ours always ran best with the timing between 28 and 32 when it was on gasoline. Anything more than 32 slowed it down. It bent the wheelie bars a few times too. Once you get it dialed in you will love the blower setup.

You may already know this, but an old trick that will help with the fuel running down your arms is to tie some shop rags tightly around your wrists before cracking the lines loose.

 

%$#@ !!! The Brand Freak'n New Holley HP pump gacked on the 2nd pass !!

1st pass was an easy one and it tells me my 60 ft times actually improved with the gear change... that's good. 2nd pass my fuel pressure bottoms out and never recovers. Spent the better part of the day making sure there was nothing else wrong which means screwing around with fuel and fuel lines for a couple of hours in the sun. In the end I conclude it's the pump. I watched the pressure peak at 3 psi and then drop to 0 all the while watching the return flow in my fuel tank dribble to almost nothing. The micron filter prior to the pump was clear and the pump spit out some kind of oil based crap out the pressure release...that can't be good. A little internet research shows me instances of this happening with these pumps...hopefully Holley makes good on it

All is not lost... a racing buddy has a Holley Black. We swapped it in late last night at the track. I'll be back at'r today...what else can go wrong here ?? (He asked knowingly)

 

Well.... we're waiting...

 

What else can go wrong... how about a rain out ... At least that didn't hurt parts

Got 1 pass in and it was a reasonably good one... for the first 200 ft ... and then it kinda sorta did nothing special. 10.90 / 118. Plenty of fuel pressure this time... in fact too much. I will have to re-think my regulator set up. The Scout left off idle and pulled the front end 3 feet and carried them out past the 60 ft timers. I have never done this before without using the trans brake. New motor makes some serious torque. 60 ft was a personal best 1.41 and that was tripping the lights with the back wheels.

As for the lack of performance down track I'm thinking I'm shooting myself in the foot The motor was dyno'd without a boost referencing MSD. I'm running one now and set it to retard the timing 1 degree / lb of boost. As this thing is building boost (6 lbs - ish) I'm thinking its retarding the timing right out of the happy zone. I was lined up with the timing set at 32 degrees and the retard set at 0 when the rain hit.

2 more race dates to get it sorted out for Meltdown. Can't show up with more motor and go slower than last year

 

Cool thread!

 

GOD this thing is sooooo cool. I love it. Hopefully you will get to spend some time with good weather at the track and you can dial it in.

 

Oh you can, but people will talk...lol

 

I agree you are retarding it out of the happy zone
Your effective CR is only 11.5:1 @ 6 lb.. If you are running decent fuel you don't need to retard at all... 34* and lock her out. If you run pump premium take 2* out from 34 at 5-6 lb.

Just my opinion.
I do like the Scout though...

 

Shots from the only Pass of the day.
Good shot of the slicks working hard.

The return road shot has a good picture of my brother Paul. (Black t-shirt / sunglasses) A lot of credit and thanks to this guy for being a big part of the project. It's at his shop where it all happens

In the background of the burnout shot you'll see a big guy on a green quad. That's Glen Novakowski. His offer to sell me a fuel pump made these shots possible. It's generous actions like this that makes the racing worthwhile at times. Especially when you're struggling a bit. Thanks Glen

 

Frustrated !!
We have the fuel pressure problem sorted out and reset the timing / TDC to re-establish a baseline. But we still seemed to have lost 100hp from the dyno. Best times this weekend were 10.67 / 121 w 1.40 60 ft. Not bad but not nearly what I was expecting. The dyno is telling me I'm 100 hp more then the last motor but the numbers at the track are telling me I'm almost the same... so where is it ??

My engine builder wandered by this weekend and confirmed there isn't anything obviously wrong with the set up what we are doing. He's suggested swapping out my 8 year old 6AL (boost) unit. I have a new 2 step 6AL still in the box so it's technically a free swap, less wiring and worth a try. I'm not using the boost feature and my builder and my Dyno guy suggested it might be confusing the box. It's also the last of the differences from the Dyno set up.

I'm learning to read plugs... A Top Dragster guy (Wally Stalmack) gave us a lesson over a beer or 2 and I learned more in 20 minutes than I have in the last year. The plugs are telling me I'm actually a little too aggressive with the timing but the fuel mixture is acceptable. The aggressive timing tells me it should be making power but the numbers are telling me otherwise...

My drivetrain set up is not optimal with my old 5200 stall convertor but it's not that far off and the 60 ft times are showing that. I'm making the same 6 lbs we had on the dyno and its holding through the lights... sooo... I ask again...where's the 100 hp ??

Maybe a chassis dyno session is in order...

 

If it was just a chassis problem you would be running faster thru the lights, I would look at the engine...

 

The 5200 converter is probably a lot of the problem. Blower motors make so much torque that a loose converter just wastes the power. I would guess that a 3800 would be just about right for your combination. You would be surprised at how much better a blower or nitrous car will run with a tighter converter.

Another thing that comes to mind are the headers. Are they the same as what was used on the dyno? Blower motors need all the help they can get on the exhaust side.

 

You got any video of the latest runs? I learned the most about my junk from watching it over and over. Also post up all the incrimental times. I also think it should be MPHing higher..

 

So 3 race days of testing later and I'm no farther ahead than before. Breakage is keeping us from really chasing the lost 100 hp

As stated I have the fuel pressure and fuel volume sorted out. Rock steady at 6 psi and no noticeable drop through the lights. As stated, all it cost me is a new fuel pump and some fittings. ($220+)

Then we sorted out an alternator problem and now have 13.5 volts with all accessories running and 14 volts if I kill the water pump. But... it's still not performing.

Breakage:
Fragged a starter. 2 hour round trip for a new one. $200 later and a 10 minute install and we're good to go. Then I killed a battery... $200 Red Top was the fix. This morning my first attempt at a pass saw a good burnout and then gunfire from the engine. Initial diagnosis was a broken rocker. After pulling the valve covers this thankfully proved to be incorrect.

We pulled the distributer cap and dumped out a ton of red plastic fragments and an assortment of parts. The rotor had came off and shredded the cap from the inside. Found a rotor and cap in another racer's trailer (6 pack of beer) and we were back in action.

Truck leaves hard... very hard. 3 foot wheel stands off footbrake, Haven't tried the trans brake yet. No need to use it to put on a show. 60ft is the best ever, then it lays down from there. (See incremental times at the end). Last pass today I tried a higher shift point and

Meltdown Status:
The good news is the truck is still in one piece and we'll be at Meltdown as promised. Big burnouts and wheel stands still on the menu. This week I'm going to fix the wheelie bar mounts and, as recommended, swap out my 8 year old MSD 6AL boost for a new digital 6AL with built in 2 step. (Can't hurt) I'm also going to swap the coil for something hotter.

This evening I did some math and the numbers are telling me I have 22% converter slippage. Maybe the demon is staring me in the face and I can't see it. After Meltdown I will seriously consider a converter swap but I would rather not spend the travel budget on the parts and risk not being ready.

Converter math: Using an online calculator from Wallace Racing
121 mph
6800 rpm
4.10 gear
99" tire
= 22% slippage (yikes)

Best pass of the last 6
60 1.40
330 4.33
1/8 6.84
1/8 100.56
1/4 10.67
1/4 121.71

 

Well at least you didn't break anything major. My money is on the converter. It would explain why it leaves hard but excess slippage is killing the top end charge.

 

Well, 100 hp is 20% of 500 rwhp. That convertor sounds like it could be a big part of your problem. I look forward to seeing it run at Meltdown next week.

Good Luck.

 

Can you actually feel it fall off between the 60 and the 330 or you just going by what you see on the time slip? Looking at your numbers, the 60 ft looks much faster then the rest of the run so I would agree with what you are saying. Are you still running a TH400 in it? Is it falling down on the 1-2 shift? No video?

 

Keep yer heart in it Scoutmaster! You WILL triumph over this EVIL!!! Chief Dan George says it best"Endeavor to persevere...." Sorry to say I can't make Meltdown...several reasons...none good but that doesn't alter the fact.....Good Luck with yer Scout and I will see you next time I'm lookin at ya! Redliner