What Ford overhead in a 40 Ford?

Is there any Ford overhead that will fit in a 40 Ford without firewall mods?

 

302/5.0l

 

Are you using stock front suspension or is the car riding on a Mustang II frontend? What are your intentions for the car? Small block Fords fit well by taking just a few precautions. Also if you use an automatic trans, the Ford C4 is the easiest to fit in the X-member area. No trimming involved. Post a few details so we can better help you.

 

How? I had a 40 coupe with a 302, it had HUGE firewall/floor pan surgery. I'd sure like to see how you shoehorn a SBF into one.

Brian

 

I would like to see one cleanly installed without firewall mods myself.

 

Probably because the entire engine was placed behind the front crossmember instead of locating a small portion of the engine above it. If you modify the front crossmember into a deeper design or simply graft a '41 - '48 center section you will clear the front mount oil pump. Ride height is restored by de-arching the front spring. I would suggest using the very compact front cover/ water pump/ accessory drive off of '91- '94 T-bird, '94- '95 Mustang or any Explorer with a 5.0. Ford Racing also sells this setup. That is the most compact and tidy front dress you can get. It will save you 2" of engine length.

 

As much as I like sbf engines, I think the sbc is an easier, less intrusive fit. My Son is talking about putting a sbf into his 46 Ford and I am trying to convince him to go the sbc route just to make it easier.

I know there are now shorter water pumps, but every sbf I have seen in a 40ish Ford has required some major firewall surgery. Guess it can be done, but I would like to see how.

Don

 

I am looking for pics. Can't remember where I have them. A picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

 

Y not a Y???

 

Best I can do in a pinch. Follow link and click on pic of `40 Ford with SBF. You will notice stock firewall and it is using the front dress I mentioned before. No magic just common sense.

http://www.stromberg-bulletin.com/2012/08/

 

Yup. Pictures. It's easy to say something will fit. My '40 had a Mustang IFS, modified front wishbone and a small radiator ahead of where the stocker went, and still didn't fit nicely.

I acquired it that way, so I feel no responsibility for hacking up a cherry '40 coupe...

Brian

 

Or just use one of the following:

62 or older Cadillac

65 or older Buick Nailhead

Early Olds through 49-60

The holiest of holys, most any early Hemi

Honorable mention goes to a select number of Pontiac combinations.

Any of those choices almost always gets a pass from the Ford-in-a-Ford police, and some of them may also go in with little to no surgery if you place it right. Just don't paint any of them Chevrolet orange and you'll be a'ight...

 

Yes and the power to weight ratio increasingly sucks with each and every example you give.

 

Power to weight ratio isn't everything! Appearance matters and SBF engines just don't look right in most hot rods. IMO.


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Aren't there different oil pans also to give more clearance at the front cross member? With that change and a short water pump you shouldn't have to chop-up the firewall.

 

Hard to tell in that picture, but it appears that there is not room for a fan on the engine side of the radiator. That might work with no a/c, but not with a condenser mounted on the front of the radiator. I have a friend who will be installing a SBF in a 40 for a customer who demands it. If anyone can do it nicely, he can. We will see. I will stick with the little Chevy, although I would prefer a Ford.

 

i like the caddy or olds or a y-block but the sbc is still a good chioce

 

Sunbeam Tigers used the SBF. They had a shorter front engine set up.

 

I've got a SBF in my avatar '47 Ford coupe, and the firewall is untouched, and it's got a 2" spacer to get the fan close enough to the radiator....

 

Like the idea of a Nailhead ---- BUT I sure had to hack up the firewall of my Model A a mega amount more than a SBC would have required. They are long suckers and probably just as wide as a SBC.

Canuck

 

I think the bellhousing to water pump pulley flange is within 1/4 inch with the 1.75 inch shorter water pump.

 

Old men are like little kids, there doesn't have to be any rationality for our decisions, we just want what we want and we want it now. For me its to have a 40 sedan like the one I should have never sold back in the sixties. It had a flathead with a 4bl with headers and duals. I plan to build a similar car and drive the hell out of it as a daily driver. I haven't given up the idea of a flathead but I'm open for suggestions on an overhead as long as its a Ford. Not that all the other brands don't make sense because they do. SBC are great motors and fit well but I just don't like them unless they are in an early Vette. Hell, if I were looking for a practicality I would just drive my wifes BMW station wagon. One of the things I reminisce over is the 40 column with its toggle switch ignition, starter button and column shift. I miss the feel of the column shift and steering wheel, so its got to be a standard trans with 3 on the tree. I'd prefer to use the 40 trans and rear end as well as buggy springs on both ends. None of that probably makes sense but its what I want. Another important parameter is trying to not permanently alter a car that someone may want to restore in the future.

 

I think a lot of people "make" engines fit w/o cutting firewalls, but can the car be Easily Serviced after it's done? I mean I see chevys in 40's all the time with stock firewalls & crossmembers and the trans cant be removed w/o taking out the engine, @#$% that.

 

Essex 3.8 V6

 

Ardun:d

 

OK today I was able to get a few pics of what I'm talking about. Maybe this will help. We had my buddy's Flathead powered `47 Ford conv on the lift today to do a little servicing. These photos should help to illustrate the problem area on front oil pump Ford engines into `35 to `40 Ford cars. Note: it is necessary to run a rear sump pan with any`35 - `48 Ford car since that is how a Flathead is set up. The problem is that even with a rear sump pan, the space where the oil pump resides will interfere with the stock crossmember.

Here is the deep channel crossmember configuration that exists on `41 to `48 Ford and Merc cars.



Not the clearest pic, but my hand is in there and as you can see there is plenty of room between the crank centerline and the top of the crossmember.



See, that's me pointing it out.....lol! You can also see the flat spring used in these later cars.



Now here is a good pic in which you can plainly see there is room for a small block Ford oil pan.



I noticed that the OP in a later post stated that he did not want to alter this car too much so that it could be returned to stock if so desired in the future. In this case I would not cut the existing crossmember but rather carefully remove it and install later crossmember of which I have 4. I can part with one at a fair price. Since these later crossmembers are wider the ends can be trimmed and made to fit right where the original came out. No cutting of frame just removing rivits. Not too big of a deal. Additionally if you run a SBF to early Ford trans you will of course need an adapter. There are early 5 bolt versions for 221- early 289 engines available used on Ebay.To run a later 6 bolt SBF you will need to contact Pat Mcguire at Wilcap as I believe he makes that adapter. Hope this helps

 

Sorry guy, but I did just that to my 40 sedan with 350 / 350 trans with stock firewall. Chassis Engineering mounts and center crossmember plates. Split wishbones with CE mounts. Dropped and replaced trans with engine in place.

 

In that case...

 

Typical thread, Someone posts about putting a Ford engine in a Ford truck and there are more posts about Chevrolets than there are Fords. I have a 289 in a 40 Ford P/U with only a small mod to the firewall for bellhousing clearance.