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Projects Front Engine Dragster update

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by carshopowner, May 14, 2010.

  1. I love the car, seen it run a bunch. I might have missed it, but why switch to a blower, only to slow it down to 8.50?
     
  2. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    Good question, long answer.

    Two winters ago I rebuilt the engine to get to an 8.5 index and did not get there, best run last year was an 8.59 and you need room to tune to the weather when running an index.

    I did not rebuild the engine (lower half to be a blower engine (wants a different cam (no overlap in the lobes) less compression shorter stroke for higher RPMs to make the blower work really well.

    So I have a compromise in the engine I have a really stout normally aspirated engine with a blower on it. If I push the blower the way it should be the engine will not last.

    So... I want this engine to last the season so this coming winter I can build a true blower engine and shot for a 7.00 index.

    Until then I can gain the .300 I need with this engine blower to run the 8.5 index I was trying for with out hurting the short block. It would easily go a lot fast, but the engine will not take it.

    I have run several 8.2 by mistake already
     
  3. Awesome, I figured there had to be a logical reason! Looking forward to seeing it run this season
     
  4. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    So after 40 days and 40 nights of rain and cold weather it looks like we might get to go to the track tomorrow. The dragster has been wanting to quit running at the top end of the track (fuel running away from the pick up) so I have been wanting to install a primer system

    [​IMG]

    I purchased a "Kit" that used Enderle's billet tank through AlkyDigger

    [​IMG]

    To do what I want which is a little out of the box I had to purchase some additional stuff

    [​IMG]

    So this install made me really nervous as it just seemed to fall together, normally you have to fight and fit things many times but this just seemed to go together. The return from the "K" valve was just the right height of the bottom of the belly pan

    [​IMG]

    I removed the two plugs from the side of the primer tank and two -8 fittings screwed right in, I removed the straight 1/8 NPT to -4 fitting out of the bottom and installed a 1/8 NPT 90 -4 fitting on the bottom. On the -8 fitting I installed a -8 coupler.

    [​IMG]

    So the tank is just the right height so that the bottom fitting just sits on the belly pan, the -8 return on the tank is just the right distance from the side of the chassis and bottom of the belly pan. The wiring from the old electric fuel pump was in just the right location to connect the primmer pump. With it plumbed into the return line from the "K" valve the tank will always be full once started for the first time on a race day. That just makes one less thing that needs to be done in the pit.

    [​IMG]

    I replaced the old fuel pump toggle switch with the rubber capped momentary on starter button ordered from Summit, and now at a push of a button I get a nice squirt of alcohol into the rear most port of the hat on top of the blower. I had used the rear ports in the blower for my rear two injectors. We will try it out tomorrow.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  5. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Well it has been awhile since I actually posted anything on the dragster.

    Well it has been raining, raining, raining, and more rain.

    I did get out two weeks ago and really hope to get out again tomorrow to do some more testing, but it looks like rain.

    It is really important to get out tomorrow as I want to go to Norwalk the 20th for an NDRL race. The problem is that, one it is an index race and I have not gotten that squared away, two it is a pro tree and have had no practice on a pro tree, I may go anyway to get away from this RAIN (and yes I am tempted to use a forbidden word here), and three it is ¼ mile and lately for one reason or another it seems all my racing has been 1/8 mile, I hate 1/8 mile.

    Went club racing Friday June 21 club racing 1/8 mile. Here is a summery

    First run, Friday night 8:23 PM
    Air Density 2200
    Top Pulley 60
    Pill 90
    Fuel Pressure 60.38
    Top end Boost 9.02
    60 foot 1.316
    Calculated ¼ mile 8.443
    A/F ratio 3.808
    Comments, I did not write down the pulley size and pill so this was done from memory, data is questionable.

    Second Run, Friday night 9:22 PM
    Air Density 1810
    Top Pulley 62
    Pill 90
    Fuel Pressure 59.82
    Top end Boost 8.31
    60 foot 1.303
    Calculated ¼ mile 8.586
    A/F ratio 3.810
    Comments, This is really unusually good air. Took away some air, but the density go better the end result was little change

    Third Run, Friday night 10:15 PM
    Comment, I had to throw this run out (won the race), dew had fallen and after the 1/8 mile marker I had to get out of it as it got really squirrely (rear tires started to spin in the dew on the track). Data was all screwed up and graph was useless.



    Ok, now Saturday, Gasser series racing, June 22.
    Gasser series is 1/8 mile ET racing, so I have no ¼ mile times (so for comparison a ¼ mile 8.483 is a 1/8 mile 5.427). We only had two time trails as there was a bad accident that shut the track down for awhile, the guy is ok?, but will be in the hospital for awhile.

    First round of qualifying, Saturday 3:07 PM
    Air Density 3079
    Top pulley 62
    Pill 95
    Fuel Pressure 51.61
    Top end Boost 7.53
    60 foot 1.312
    Cal 1/4 mile 8.702
    AF Ratio 3.688
    Comment, Felt terrible, to slow for the 8.5, fuel out the pipes, need to make big changes

    Second round of qualifying, Saturday 4:35 PM
    Air Density 3249
    Top pulley 60
    Pill 105
    Fuel Pressure 52.06
    Top end Boost 8.31
    60 foot 1.265
    Cal 1/4 mile 8.392
    AF Ratio 4.074
    Comment, Much more like it, but now too fast. This run was against my arched nemesis (a good friend who in the second round of eliminations I give the race away to by breaking out and red lighting). I had my best light ever a .508 and beat his ET by .1865, now if only I could do that in a race.

    Ok, now we are into the first round of elimination so we decided not to play with it and see if we could predict an ET.
    First round of eliminations, Saturday 6:13 PM
    Air Density 3100
    Top pulley 60
    Pill 105
    Fuel Pressure 50.99
    Top end Boost 8.24
    60 foot 1.247
    Cal 1/4 mile 8.410
    A/F Ratio 4.072
    Comment, Treed him and won by .0281.

    Second round of eliminations, Saturday 7:41 PM
    Air Density 2858
    Top pulley 60
    Pill 105
    Fuel Pressure 53.28
    Top end Boost 8.31
    60 foot 1.241
    Cal 1/4 mile 8.355
    AF Ratio 4.110

    Comments. This guy and I end up racing each other a lot as are ETs are always close. We have yet to have a race, we each keep giving the race to the other one, this time I red lite and broke out. The dragster sounded good and felt good, it likes this air fuel ratio better, but once again I am too fast for the 8.5 index.

    Serious consideration is being given to going in the other direction (8.000 index). The problem boils down to engine RPM. I am concerned that this engine will not last if I push the RPM higher, currently turning 6400s at the top end. This is a stroked Pontiac 400 punched and stroked out to 461. A simple fix would be to put a higher tire on the rear. I am currently running a 31X13X15 M/T. by going to a 32 high tire I increase the circumference by 3.96 percent (drop the top end RPM by 253)(circumference 97.0 to 101). No one makes a 32X13X15 tire Hoosier has a 13.5X13.5X15 in a lightweight C07 compound, but the side wall will not clear and I cannot space it out as the tire rim combo I have now is spaced out, so I would have to buy rims also. Hoosier also makes a 32.0X13.0X15 in a D05 compound which is a soft compound and one of the problems is I have low HP and based on the graphs I am dead hooking now. M/T makes a 33X10.5X15 tire with a M3 compound (medium). This tire is interesting in that the compound is a little harder, the with is smaller so it might help with the launch, but I afraid that I do not have the HP to turn a 2 inch taller tire. INPUT REQUESTED

    Tuning, it I stay with the 8.5 I think I want to try a 110 pill and adjust pulleys to get an A/F ratio of 4.1. By taking away more fuel and keeping the A/F ratio about the same I should take away HP and slow it down a little more. Sure would like to go to the 8.000, but have the RPM / tire problem.
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  6. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Glenn Sounds like you are haveing fun except for the rain part.

    Honestly Glenn you suffer from 2 symtoms one is "Too much digital information" and the other is "Too much money"

    For all the years I have been running my car and throughout all the races I have won I have Never known ---
    exhaust temp-fuel pressure-airfuel ratio-barrel valve leak- engine rpm (only guesstamate with a Isky dream wheel)
    And all that 'puter stuff means nothing unless one can tune without it.
    When I ran 7.60 (375ci 1640#)with a 33x12 Goodyear and 3.90 gear (approx 6800rpm)
    29* lead 5%over (weak 6-71) @ 18# and with a 110pump 115/120 jet (dead fat) and no high speed. Water temp at the end was 165/170, spark plug read was 2 threads. Average 60' was a 1.13 leaving from Idle(handbrake) .
    Consider that if you are not making HP the bigger tire will slow you down and even with me stepping up to 6.9/7.0 I still run the same tire with exilnt results, I cant even tell you what compound it is,Ive run both and cant see any difference.
    General rule of thumb is that once you get the baseline run and record corrected density alltitude, every 200' change up or down requires a single jet change number. If you were at 2000' running a 100 jet and the CDA went down to 1600' (-400') the jet would be 98 to repeat the run. I am more interested in my water temp because "HEAT is HP" and normal threshhold is 240* before you have issues. The more heat you have the further before TDC the fuel ignites and creates power and the less heat you have the closer to TDC the fuel ignites because one is using more cyl pressure to help ignite it. That why most alc engines run magnetos because the duration of the spark lasts longer to work within the heat window.
    Right now I am at 36* lead, 21%over @ 28#(still weak 6/71) highspeed w/74jet and 2 shims,190/200 water temp, cant find my dream wheel, still leaving off idle, same tire and gear. Running consistant 7.0 @ 199/200mph and that was at 3300' @ 95* temp.
    Have a Happy 4th Bruce
     
  7. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member


    Great input thanks.

    I take exception to the "Too much money" to get to the dragster I built and sold an SS396 El Camino, which paid for a built and sold 78 Firebird, which paid for the dragster.

    I have always though I was doing this on a shoestring budge. Support is a small trailer, pulled by a 2007 pickup with 145,000 miles on it. I do powder coat on the side to pay for the upgrades.

    You are tuning by changing the pill? "General rule of thumb is that once you get the baseline run and record corrected density altitude, every 200' change up or down requires a single jet change number."

    My understanding was once you get the base line you leave the pill alone and change the air side by changing pulleys
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mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> up and down to keep bost the same based on Air Density.
     
  8. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Pulley change takes too long in the staging lanes, and if you are running late and the sun goes down alt drops quickly I can look at my handheld WS and swap a jet out in 20seconds.

    A pulley change as it relates to the engines performance is about how soon the blower makes boost, Low OD takes longer to come up where as high OD comes in sooner, they all relitivity make the same amount of boost (23# @ 5% and 26# @ 21%) and since most gain in lowering ET is done within the first 100 feet, Having the blower attain more boost quicker lowers 60' times .

    If you have establised a baseline index (run the number)and alt goes up, the air gets thinner and by leaving the jet alone the system gets fat and you slow down, lean on the jet and you maintain A/F ratio. If the alt comes down(air gets better)and you dont change the jet= good air and lean jet- you go faster. All theis works because we run an Index instead of all out, my car is capable of running 6.80 full tilt boogie and have to slow it down so it lets me play rich jet/lean jet but in reality its running rich and I lean to lower ET.
    Tale of two races at the same track, Bakersfeild MM and Sat night nitro
    blower od 18% 26#boost 1200' corr.alt 34* lead
    1.098 60' 7.03 @196 135 main

    blower od 25% 28# boost 3200' corrected and 36*lead (every 2deg advance is like 1% blower add-on)
    1.106 60' 7.009 @199 150 main

    If I went to a 140 jet one the first one might have been a 7.00 but was the next day from previous runs and wanted to be safe on the index. I changed the OD because the thinner air took longer to compress off idle, total pressue was near the same

    One needs to maintain constants and only change one thing and blowers are to coarse and jets are veneir. Now if you are way off in your times then change blower OD, if the coarse is close, adjust timing up or down to fake out blower OD. After that its just a venier adj with the jets.
    Glenn , I am not a know it all, in fact I still dont understand it all, everybody runs a car different, but for the past 18 years with this car and same combination- its what has worked for me and if you are haveing issues then I would ask you to consider it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013
  9. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    I am considering it that is why I asked the question. I am a green horn at this so I listen to all input.
     
  10. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="&#45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Well we really wanted to test this weekend as I would like to go to Norwalk for NDRL

    Briggs and Stratton Summer Jam
    at the Blue Suede Cruise
    Summit Motorsports Park
    Norwalk, OH

    http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php?topic=48.0
    http://summitmotorsportspark.com/in.../icalrepeat.detail/2013/07/21/74/-/-?Itemid=1

    We still do not have the 8.5 index straightened away and kind have hit the physical limit of slowing down with air fuel mixture (top pulley cannot be any larger without changing the belt guard and the bottom pulley is a 42 tooth pulley and has the drive for the belt for the fuel pump inside).

    We have made the adventurous decision to go for the 8.0 index instead.

    Empire was rained out Friday, washed out Saturday, so we decided to drive two hours to go to Esta Safety Park Dragstrip[FONT=&quot]&#8206;[/FONT], 8091 Eastwood Road, Cicero, NY 13039. Got up at 5 in the morning to leave by 6 (two hour drive), got within 10 minutes of it and received it was closed due to flooding.

    Plans now are to blow off club racing July 12th for testing for Norwalk.

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  11. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Glenn I keep reading and reading your posts to try and understand what is happening.

    You say that the bottom pulley is a 42 and you are running a 60 to 62 top pulley, Do you even reliase that you are UNDERDRIVING(spinning the blower slower than crank speed) the blower by over 41%!!! at that rate you are not even covering parasitic drag of the blower itself and any boost you do get is just the air you trap under the blower by shear speed craming it in.
     
  12. Bruce,
    I have been following along and agree about the underdrive, but how is Glenn getting 8psi data numbers...unless that is one TIGHT blower?
     
  13. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Great info Glenn :) thanks for shearing!


    Kjell

    ...............................................
    Taildragger&fenderlessg
     
  14. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    If a blower has 100hp of parasistic drag and 8# of boost gives the engine 100 extra HP then adding the blower is a wash and if the power enhancement is zero then the ET(slowed) is affected by just having to carry the extra weight. Being a tight blower it is getting some boost and the air packing the injector scoop feeding it with the rotors acting as a check valve. At that amount of underdrive and the engine at 6800 the blower is only spinning @ 4100 rpm
     
  15. jfrolka
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 898

    jfrolka
    Member

    Bruce does have one quick small block, I would follow his lead.
     
  16. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    If idle is 1000rpm the blower is (@-41%) only turning 590rpm almost acting as a choke.
    some where along the curve RPM-blower speed-manifold vacuum there has to be a point that the blower starts to compress the air to create boost. Where the delta is (time-rpm-distance-+boost) I dont know, but end result is +8 lbs

    Jordan--- just think how quick it would be IF I knew what I was doing
     
  17. jfrolka
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 898

    jfrolka
    Member

    Lol, you know it.
     
  18. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    Yes I do realize I am underdriving. I could not get the engine with out the blower to run 8.500, just needed a very small push to do it

    It is a new Littlefield of the new design where the rap the case much further around so the rotors produce more boost. It is pumping 510 Cubic Feet of air and is fully broken in

    Remember I am not running quick sixteen but an 8.5 index. This will be good ground work for understanding everything when I do run faster. Things are starting to click see below for the testing results from today

    Well did some test and tune today to work on .400 Pro Tree and 8.50 index racing. Been working off and on on this for awhile now with not too much success. The vehicle has been too fast and I have been too slow.

    The plan is to go to the NDRL race at Edgewater Sports Park Cleves, Ohio in two weeks. I have never run a pro tree and an index so this will all be new to me.

    First run, Saturday 1:33 PM August 10
    Air Density 2317
    Top Pulley 63
    Bottom Pulley 42
    Pill 110
    Top end Fuel Pressure 53.82
    Top end Boost 6.74
    Reaction time a perfect .400 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    60 foot 1.275
    ¼ mile 8.467 / 159.23 MPH
    A/F ratio 4.048
    Comments, Seem dead off the launch, engine RPM graph was flat after launch, two peaks in g-force after launch, short shifted by 300 RPM to second gear

    Second run, Saturday 3:11 PM August 10
    Air Density 2413
    Top Pulley 63
    Bottom Pulley 42
    Pill 113 Leaned it out a little
    Top end Fuel Pressure 49.83
    Top end Boost 6.94
    Reaction time .423 not to bad
    60 foot 1.275
    ¼ mile 8.526 / 159.20 MPH
    A/F ratio 4.152
    Comments, Air was a little worse, and took a little fuel away, I hit the limiter for a brief second before the shift to second. Second good light on the pro tree, ET would be ok for a 8.500 index

    Third run, Saturday 4:57 PM August 10
    Air Density 2280
    Top Pulley 63
    Bottom Pulley 42
    Pill 113 Leaned out a little
    Top end Fuel Pressure 47.72
    Top end Boost 7.07
    Reaction time .389 Oops
    60 foot 1.267
    ¼ mile 8.451 / 162.27 MPH Fastest speed I have run yet, I have run faster ETs, but not speed
    A/F ratio 4.175
    Comments, By the time I ran after sitting in the staging lanes the air got better, was to fast again, Shift to second was right on

    Forth run, Saturday 6:52 PM August 10
    Air Density 2077
    Top Pulley 64
    Bottom Pulley 42
    Pill 113 Leaned out a little
    Top end Fuel Pressure 48.12
    Top end Boost 6.68
    Reaction time .394 two in a row
    60 foot 1.272
    ¼ mile 8.504 / 158.45 MPH I can live with this for a 8.500 index!!!!!!!!!!!
    A/F ratio 4.138 This may be the magic number with the 113 bypass pill (adjust pulleys to get A/F Ratio)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!A touch fatter than the 8.526 run, slowed it down perfect.

    A great day of testing, we are in the ball park!
     
  19. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    One uses whatever one has to achive his goal---good job
     
  20. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    I know it is not "up to speed" quickness of a lot of people, but I have it doing what I want and need so I am happy. This winter will be a aluminum block engine build for a blower shooting for a 7.50 index, A lot faster.

    Thanks
     
  21. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    We went and did some test and tune today.

    The symptom we have is the engine comes up to RPM on the trans brake, I release the trans brake and the dragster launches, and then falls on its face. It then picks’s itself up and has a pretty normal run. I hit my shift point at 6300 RPM, RPMs drop off as you would expect and then climbs again.

    What is pictured below and in the attached files (not sure which is easiest for you to view) is a graph produced in the data logger.

    It appears to show a drastic drop in fuel pressure before the slump in engine RPM. The first graph shows the complete run. The second graph is just the area between the blue vertical lines to zoom in on the troubled area.

    [​IMG]

    This is the zoom in on the trouble area.
    When the engine RPM reaches 4756 the fuel pressure is at 31.92 pounds.
    When the engine RPM reaches 4810 the fuel pressure has dropped to 3.37 pounds.
    When the engine RPM drops to 3527 the fuel pressure recovered to 16.13 pounds and continues to climb.

    The red vertical lines are for reference between the two graphs of fuel pressure and engine RPM.

    [​IMG]

    If we lean the engine out (not changing the fuel main bypass, but add air by decreasing the top pulley the problem is not as pronounced. We are blowing fuel out the number 8 cylinder.

    This graph represents an 8.904 ET run in the ¼ mile
    We lean it out and ran an 8.409

    We have check compression, valve lash, put in a new MSD box, New coil, removed the primmer, check timing, increased timing to 30 degrees, check the inside of the distributor cap, remove and cut open the torque converter (no problems found)
     
  22. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,975

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    Your scans didn't show up Glenn, and as for the Kast33erdf post , it's just some scammer racking up post counts ,posted the same comment on a few other threads,,, I see this alot on the Hamb these days,,,, Tim Jones
     
  23. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member


    Not sure why they did not show up, they are there when I look at the post.

    I have attached them as pictures below
     

    Attached Files:

  24. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,975

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    Glenn,,, My friend the late Clayton Harris always told me not to over think your problems , sometimes the fix is very simple, So Here's my quick thoughts , what's the chance your drive belt on your pump slips on takeoff, OR could there be a high spot in your main fuel line causeing an air pocket? Tim Jones
     
  25. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    Truly a sad moment, the end of summer, the Jeep has its top and doors back on and ready for storage, and the dragster is in pieces.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  26. JC Sparks
    Joined: Dec 8, 2008
    Posts: 733

    JC Sparks
    Member
    from Ohio

    On your close up graph when you let off the trans brake the motor starts to go up to the converter flash, and the pump pressure go up with the RPM, but as it is going up all of a sudden the fuel pressure drops off like a poppet is opening. If it is not a poppet valve then the pump is running out of fuel. Those are the only things that can make the pump lose pressure because it is RPM driven. It is a cam drive pump correct? JC
     
  27. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    It is a belt driven pump.

    I think we solved 80 percent of the problem. There is a flapper on the rear baffel in the tank. I believe the after the burn out and when I got on the brakes the flapper was slamming shut and getting stuck.

    I would back up, stage and launch and the dragster would burn through the fuel in the last compartment and the pump would starve. The g-force on the fuel in front of the baffle with the flapper would force the flapper open, I would then have fuel and the rest of the run would go fine.

    I wired the flapper up in the tank and it is much better. There is still a dip in the RPM after the launch (fuel pressure does not drop before RPM), but I believe the tires are dead hooking.

    I will post detail on this problem shortly (with graph)
     
  28. JC Sparks
    Joined: Dec 8, 2008
    Posts: 733

    JC Sparks
    Member
    from Ohio

    Try playing with the tire pressure. More tire speed at the launch may help. JC
     
  29. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 406

    carshopowner
    Member

    New tires are one of the this winter's projects, much research to do before purchase. I want an inch taller and narrower tire. I have gone from 8.6 in the 1/4 to 8.0 and want to drop the top end RPM a little.
     

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