49-54 chevy sub frame swap

who's running a clipped front end. is it worth the work? I like the idea of the disc brakes, power steering, and easy motor mounts. anyone use an S-10 frame clip?

 

I've done two subframe swaps on my own rigs and while both drove fantastic when it was all said and done they are a big pain in the butt when it comes to trying to get the sheet metal to fit right and you end up hacking up a lot of the sheet metal panels such as the apron under/in front of the radiator and inner fenders to get the things to fit.

The easiest would be one of the bolt on Mustang II style crossmembers that are available from a couple of vendors. Not as cheap as a weld on but two guys can do the swap in a day pretty easily and be done in time to have a cold one. The other option might be a Jag XJ6 front crossmember that comes out of the donor rig with everything you need in one piece.

 

Don't take offence, but those words tell me that you are expecting this to be a quick and easy job. It is not. A lot can come out wrong if you don't do the homework.

By the way, most clips don't use the factory mounts in the same place, but some have.

PB is an easier add-on,don't really need discs with a booster, if the stock brakes & drums are not worn out.

PS would not be too bad of a job.

These things can be added as you have time, and build your skills.

 

there is so much aftermarket support for these cars I don't know why anyone would want to clip one.

 

Ditto to Post #2.

If you want an relatively simple conversion, good results, and no butchering........that is the direction to look. Don't be lulled into thinking a "clip" is going to be way cheaper..........you get what you pay for.

 

Are you talking car or PU?
I've heard from a few folks (one was the guy who owns the shop that did my alignment when I got done with my clip) that MII front ends were never designed to support the weight of a truck.
However if you are in to slamming it to the ground and running big tires, the MII's give you more options.
It all depends on what you want to end up with. There are no right answers and more than one way to skin a cat. Clips take more time and skill.
As stated the bolt ins are probably easier and more foolproof.

 

everything is easy and cheap on paper. do a long search here, and truck sites, for detailed info on doing a clip or other ways to upgrade frontend.

 

Why not a bolt in deal.You can have disc brakes and power steering too.

Steve

 

The hat section frame on those Chevies are a bitch to weld a clip on properly. I agree with the guys who say rebuild what you have. I have a few of those cars and the stock front suspension works well with a good rebuild and disc brake setup.

 

For what seems like the billionth time - the stock front end unbolts on these be they car or truck.

If you don't want to spend the big bucks of a Mustang-II kit on your car, the low-buck option is a Jaguar XJ front end and a $100 set of Chassis Engineering bolt-on or weld-on motor mounts.

If you don't want to spend the bucks on a trans mount kit for a car, 2-inch bix tube with a side cut off slips tight on the stock K-member, so cut a chunk out and you can make one that can be bolted in and out to what's left of it for the sake of drilling a couple holes in each side.

There are umpteen easily installed rear-ends - a second-gen Camaro is just about a bolt in.

You can upgrade the car and be going down the road for a relatively small investment in both labor and parts. Or you can cut it in half at the cowl and try to weld up three different thicknesses of metal to make up the new frame.

 

Did the s10. U will hav to get creative w the motor mounts. Additionally u will need a corvette radiator and possibly hav to lean it back to fit under the hood. In hind sight I would m2 or just rebuild the orig front end.


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Use a rear steer and you have issues mating the steering column to steering gear ( see my build thread for th example). If you use the front steers, you have track width issues. I agree wjth above that it takes some extra effort to re-fit the front metal. I only ended up needing to cut my inner fenders, and make a new mount under the radiator.

My buddy had one with lowersd stock suspension. If I had to do it over, I would use the stock stuff, and add the disc kits from speedway. Mine already had the nova clip in when I bought it. Honestly though yhe amt I spent putting in all new rods, ends , seals, bearings etc, I could afford a MII setup.

Listen to advice here. I promise they are pointing in right direction.

 

...I've clipped several 49-52 Chevy cars (and even older Chevs with the same frame design) using 68-74 Nova (or clone) subs, rear steer, drum brakes with great results; they sit nice, steer, ride, drive nice, no fender clearance problems,no steering column hook-up problems...easy, piece of cake. I usually lap the frames to make a nice joint.... to each his own...

 

MII practically puts itself in these cars.

 

It literally took me about 10 minutes a side, if even that, to drill and bolt in a set of Chassis Engineering motor mounts after I mocked up using the motor itself to help position them. They just slip over the frame - you may have to knock off a piece of metal brace of some sort on the outer frame rail on some cars, but a few whacks behind the spot welds and they fell right off. I can't possibly imagine any easier motor mounts. And I changed a factory one when I was driving the truck the donor motor came out of - what a pain in the ass that was.

Granted that was with the fenders off the car, but even that doesn't take long to dissassemble.

 

Thanks for the replys everyone. My train of thinking was I have a clip sitting from a 76 Camaro for free. The MII's are fairly expensive when on a tight budget. I had thought of keeping the factory suspention and replacing what is needed. then adding the disc brakes. I have come across a site that shows how to fab in a rack and pinion from an 85-93 cavalier. Oh its a car that I'm building, not a truck. I just want to be able to drive it and not worry about issues. but have a limited budget to get things done. sure would be nice to win the lottery!

 

Too wide, you lower it the tires rub the fenders on turns.

Jaguar XJ clip is an easy swap to the stock frame, fits, has discs, R&P, can take bags, and even has the same wheel bolt pattern. Chances are you can find a dead one for under $1000, take what you need, part some of it out, and scrap the shell and at least break even.


Frankly I was going to drive mine with the stock front end and 51-54 brakes with a dual chamber master... I've driven all drum brake cars before... these only weigh 3500 lbs or so, with discs you're liable to lock the wheels up and slide. But I also was doing the smart man's low budget build - it actually was paying me to own that car before I sold it. For instance, the seats I put in it - bought a $300 parts car, kept seats, sold motor and trans for $500, sold shell for scrap $200, sold $100 in other parts out of it, still have some bits.

 

I did the CE crossmember install on mine in a day. Very easy, and all of the sheet metal still lined up, except for a couple of spots where I had to trim the inner fender, but not a problem. I wouldn't clip it.

 

You can look at my build pics in my signature to get a fairly good idea on what it takes to graft a 74 Camaro clip into a truck. It basically entailed stripping the frame, doing lots of measuring, building a jig to locate the radiator support, cutting the stock frame out, widening the frame, welding in the clip (after a LOT of measuring) and boxing the frame and re-attaching the radiator support.
Don't know how much different this would be on a car but you get the general idea. If I hadn't had all of the driveline and suspension for the Camaro already I might have gone a different direction but that's the way I did it and it came out to my liking. Remember that if you go with even a mild v8 yo are going to have more weight and horsepower then the car was originally designed for so some frame strengthening or stiffening should be considered.

 

...that 76 Camaro sub won't work, too wide...

 

I have used S10, Cameron/firebird, and gbody stuff under my 54s.

 

Based on the measurements I had, that later sub will be too wide...the last thing you want is the tires sticking out the fenders...Speaking from experience, the S10 gives you the right track-width, but it also gives you a bunch of other issues to get creative with. I am not anti-sub (for a lot of vehicles I think it is the way to go), but for this application, it may not be the best option when it's all said and done. Either way, good luck man!

 

Rusty,

I was curious about your steering statement. I found on my 53, there was a roughly an 1 1/2" offset between my column line and gear box. Did you noticed that on the 49-52 models, or did you have a solution to overcome it?

 

...just use a double u-joint to correct that offset, or angle the bottom of the column towards the steering box...

 

What's wrong with the OEM front end? Sure it's not as modern as it could be, but it did fine under every Corvette up to about 62, and has been fine under my car for 60 years. Properly adjusted drum brakes can and will lock them up in a panic stop (done it myself) and manual steering will give you arm muscles for the ladies.

My advice, if you really want to update something to feel better, switch to a dual circuit master cylinder and save your money and time for bigger ROI projects.






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I did this very same thing after rusty told me... easy as pie.

 

Everybody puts camaro clips under their cars....then when they put the fenders on and discover the tires don't fit and rub and the fenders will not go down to fit the hood....

THEN YOU SEE THE CAR " FOR SALE".

 

I used a double U joint Rusty1. I would have cut and moved the column over an inch, except I wanted to use a column shift, and the whole for shift rod when moved would have been in the speedo gauge.

The double Ujoint actually has clearance issues, as there isn't a lot of space between the gear box and steering hookup

 

There is a wide range between 'done like a pro" and "made it work". Which path you choose depends on more than the cost of doing it. It IS possible to do first rate work and not spend a fortune doing it. "First rate" meaning attention to workmanship, appearance and adhering to sound engineering principles.

The thing is, you have to know the difference, and care about it, and it's obvious not everyone does.

 

Since your asking here goes, I have a clipped truck with the early rear steer clip. Its great I love everything and all and it was a bit of work to do there was nothing "easy" about it though. I use the term loosely because it is not a hard swap either but........for a car It just is not easy at all. I have a 54 too and after all the measuring and figuring i found it is a lot easier to leave the stock front end with the disc upgrade done. I even went the route of bags dare i say. As for the steering there is a way to adapt a chevy astro van power box to your stock steering wich inmho would be way better than the cavalier rack. I have never seen a post on anyones car with the cavalier rack swap that is happy with the outcome. Look on chevy talk for the astro swap I am planning that swap after im on the road. I know someone mentioned the wight issue with MII and I have heard the same thing but im curious to know the wieght of the cars because I think they are heavier than the trucks. something to consider....Im gonna search the wieghts to see. You can get nice mounts from waldens too for the motor and the disc upgrade is fairly good to from them as well. give it a little more thought.....