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Flathead w/ T5 cluth noise please help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Berky, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. Berky
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 403

    Berky
    Member

    With the clutch depressed in neutral there is no noise. Once I place the car in gear I hear what sounds like a angry pack of wasps. Sometimes I need to rev the engine to get it to make noise. I would say this happens maybe 50 - 75% of the time. Everything seems to function fine and there are no strange noises (that I can hear) when I am driving. :confused:

    I have maybe 40 miles since I got this road worthy. I am now scared to drive it because of this terrible noise coming from the clutch area.

    The engine is a 8ba with all of the 59a parts installed. I am using a steel truck bellhousing and a 8ba flywheel. The T5 adaptor is an old Offenhauser kit. It came with a new bronze bushing, cast iron clutch fork and new throw-out bearing. I had the flywheel drilled for a 10" Ford diaphragm clutch and a standard 10" pressure plate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  2. Berky
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 403

    Berky
    Member

    Please excuse the crappy video quality.

    <IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/OJ8OgvfIa8c" frameBorder=0 width=420 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>
     
  3. Ole don
    Joined: Dec 16, 2005
    Posts: 2,915

    Ole don
    Member

    Take it apart and see whats hitting. That engine sounds like a killer, one of the better reving flatties ever. Never give up, you have it almost licked.
     
  4. it could be the clutch is loose on on the splines and is vibrating between the pressure plate and the fly wheel when its stopped by putting it in gear
     

  5. rotorwrench
    Joined: Apr 21, 2006
    Posts: 633

    rotorwrench
    Member

    The first question I would have is how you got the starter to work with a 59A type flywheel? The ring is in the wrong place for the Merc/truck type half bell & starter plate unless you modified to work with a 59A or earlier type oil pan & cut down the half bell.

    In neutral, only the input and countershaft cluster rotate when the engine is running & clutch is engaged. When you disengage the clutch, the input & cluster gears will slow to a stop in the oil. A bad pilot shaft bushing or bearing will make noise when the clutch is disengaged and the input is slowing down.
     
  6. Berky
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 403

    Berky
    Member

    Sorry, it is an 8ba flywheel. Mixing and matching parts I tend to forget whats what.

    I am leaning towards the pilot bushing as well, but it was brand new and fight nice and snug on the input shaft before it was installed.

    I don't know if this matters, but I didn't shorten the input shaft on the trans. Everything seemed to fit together fine, but I have read that some people will take 1/4" off the shaft before installing it.
     
  7. Berky
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 403

    Berky
    Member

    Also, if the pilot bushing was bad wouldn't it make the noise every time?
     
  8. Berky
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 403

    Berky
    Member

    bump for the night crew.
     
  9. 38 Ford Guy
    Joined: May 18, 2008
    Posts: 76

    38 Ford Guy
    Member

    Check the input shaft bearing and the inner needle bearings on the inside of the input shaft these all ride on the main shaft. Mine did the same thing and it was these bearing.
     
  10. BRENT
    Joined: Jun 22, 2005
    Posts: 252

    BRENT
    Member

    Does it get harder to shift when the motor has been running for a while? When I mean harder to shift is it hard to put it into first and reverse?
     
  11. Berky
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 403

    Berky
    Member

    Not that I have noticed. It goes into all gears very easily. My furthest drive has only been about 10 miles though.
     
  12. BRENT
    Joined: Jun 22, 2005
    Posts: 252

    BRENT
    Member

    The reason I ask is that sometimes I get that sound when I have been driving for a while and things start to heat up and expand. I think what is happening is that the input bearing or in your case brass bushing is expanding and grabbing onto the input shaft of the tranny and causing the tranny to spin when it should be not spinning.

    I know mine is doing this because my car shifts fine at first but after driving a while it gets increasingly hard to shift from first gear the reason is that the shaft is spinning and thus not allowing the syncro's to engage because its spinning to quick. If I shut the car off (stopping the spinning of the motor) it falls right into gear no problem.

    I have to tear mine down eventually and replace the bearing with a bushing like yours but Im going to open up the inside diameter so that I have a bit of clearence, I think to tight is no good.
     
  13. BRENT
    Joined: Jun 22, 2005
    Posts: 252

    BRENT
    Member

    Wow that crazy, just heard the video (me bad for posting without listening first) I thing that could be your pilot bearing spining. Does your shift fork have the metal spring thingys to stop rotation? It sounds like something spinning!
     
  14. Berky
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 403

    Berky
    Member

    it doesn't have the spring thing you mentioned, but I did weld in some stops to keep it from spinning on the fork.
     
  15. BRENT
    Joined: Jun 22, 2005
    Posts: 252

    BRENT
    Member

    What about the springs on the clutch hitting the screw heads of the fly wheel? I remember I had to grind the head down because the springs on the clutch disc would hit them. Thats all I can think of.
     
  16. Berky
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 403

    Berky
    Member

    Thanks Brent,

    I'm planning on pulling it apart over the long weekend and I just wanted to get any parts that I may need together. I am leaning more towards the pilot bushing, but I will keep an eye out for other unusual items while I have it apart.
     
  17. fab32
    Joined: May 14, 2002
    Posts: 13,985

    fab32
    Member Emeritus

    I'm going for the obvious with this one. Is it possible your low on gear lube in the trans?

    Frank
     
  18. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    That long, uncut pilot shaft sounds like a likely culprit, as it is the only thing assembled in contrast to known length interference.

    BUT: Clutch disengaged, [pushed in] the trans would be idle, so there would be no movement between the front input shaft bearing and the 'pocket bearing' inside...
    This could be a good call. ('38 Ford Guy)
     
  19. jan bogert
    Joined: Jul 11, 2011
    Posts: 655

    jan bogert
    Member

    on my flathead with the S-10 5 speed I have that noise too. i removed the inspection cover on the bell housing and one of the three pressure plate ears was not adjusted the same as the other two. it is still like that and i have 580 miles on it it is just slightly higher than the other two. but it only makes the nooise when i push the clutch in to put it in gear. not when its in gear with the clutch in. if the input shaft was to long it would be ingage all thetime. your clutch that is. sounds to me like flywheel bolts hitting.
     
  20. 3quarter32
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 498

    3quarter32
    Member

    I had to shorten the end of the pilot shaft about 1/4" on mine or it would bind in the pilot bushing and make all sorts of noises.
     
  21. Please post what you find. I am helping a friend install the same set up in his 32.
     
  22. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 583

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    read somewhere that the weights on the three pressure plate fingers need to be cut off-the higher the RPM, the closer they get to the trans adapter?
     
  23. You mentioned a diaphragm p plate. If you're using an original style t/o bearing for a Long style (3 finger plate), the diaphragm fingers may have a smaller diameter hole and the t/out brg can't return all the way-getting stuck in the fingers. Had a similar issue and had to adapt a different t/o brg for the diaphragm.
    RB
     
  24. Berky
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 403

    Berky
    Member

    Well I just took everything apart and the pilot bushing is toast. No other issues that I can see. I checked the depth of the input shaft and it has at least 1/2 inch of clearance.

    Now I need to decide if I want to install another bushing or order a bearing and sleeve.
     
  25. RICK R 44
    Joined: Dec 13, 2009
    Posts: 474

    RICK R 44
    Member

    Am using a bearing with a sleeve to reduce the bore size of the brg. Works great.
     
  26. When I installed mine with new flatty it started within 50 miles, only does it when the clutch is in. It's the TO bearing, mine was brand spankin new, everything you buy now is junk.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013

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