Oil grades that work with flat tappets?

Is it possible to tell from the oil grade (SN, SM, SL - gas) or (CJ-4, CH-4, ACEA 7 - diesel) if it has enough zinc or equivalent to work well with flat tappet cams?

Or, do you have to find the data sheet to know?


Pleeeese, no oil wars, just info eh?

 

We don't take a chance, we put a half a can of Lucas Break In lubricant in with every oil change. There are oils that might have enough zinc, but I feel this is just extra insurance and so far so good.

Don

 

Supposedly new grades are supose to be compatible but they dont have the zink. Valvoline vr1 racing oil is one that does have the required reported levels. You can bauy the additive bottles to ad to new grades....google turns them up.

 

You can google the data sheets for most modern oils. I'd stick with a HDEO or something like Quaker State Defy that has more zinc. You can also buy zinc additives for use in older flat tappet engines. Lots of good oil info at bobistheoilguy. Just google it.

 

No modern car oil will have a rating thats good enough. To get even close you have to go to HEDO or Fleet oils. Or hi-dollar zoot suit specialty oils AKA- "racing only/ muscle car oil".

pqiamerica.com Has alotta info on it. (petroleum quality institute of america)
they are an independant/ random testing lab.

I've been using diesel Chevrol Delo400le in everything for a while now. all my buddys and i run it in our hotrods and jeeps. High compression motors, crate motors, blower motors, jeep 4.0's love it.
its CI-4/CJ-4 rated.
Runs about $11 a gallon at wal-mart.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/May 2013/consolidatedhdeo.html

This is as of May 8th 2013.

I like HDEO (heavy duty engine oils) or fleet oil
Zinc is what everyone obsesses over, the independent test is showing
Zinc @-1490, go to the site for the full additive package.

I guess the "safe zone" for flat tappets is about 1200ppm. So im comfy in it.
You could add half a bottle of STP oil additive (yellow bottle, lists ZDDP on the label) if it makes you more comfy, But too much zinc will spall the cam surface as well.

I pour in Delo and take a deep breath, everything will be ok. Don't fret about it.
Beware however, nothing makes the earth tremble more than an oil thread.
my 2c

 

any raceing oil or diesel will have enough zinc what ever grade you use

 

Also Brad Penn oils.

 

any pre CJ-4 diesel oil , or pre sl api Oils . diesel oil also has been cut back on ZDDP for the new particulate filter motors ,but you can still get pre cj-4 diesel oil ,Will be using brad penn in the flat tappet pontiac motors I have , or see if the local lube oil blender will make me a drum of special oil as they have the ZDDp in bulk ( will not sell it seperate either as its a regulated substance , I tried ) I was going to ask them what the minimum for a group buy would be in gallons . the smallest ammount container wise they package is 5 gallons . was looking to get 10w40

 

Valvoline NSL. You can get it on Amazon. They changed the VR1 and I would not use it.


copied from another site:

I picked up the Valvoline Product Manual at a big NAPA vendor display at a big car show last weekend. The manual was a Valvoline publishing, simply being handed out by the NAPA guys. NAPA carries Valvoline Racing Oil as well as their normal street oils. The manual had more "text" info than their website, but it did not have specific "test" numbers. I wish it had, since the website info for VR1 appears to be a misprint, and I'll show you why I say that. It's common knowledge that oil companies have had to reduce zinc to meet the later API SL/SM requirements, all in an effort to preserve the cats on modern cars. A change for emissions, not engine longevity. But then, flat tappet motors are a thing of the past, right?.........and modern roller tappet engines don't seem to be bothered by it. That whole deal has been discussed countless times on the various Forums. And there was even a widely read magazine article awhile back about how the new oils with reduced zinc is considered to be one of the primary factors in flat tappet motor lobe wiping. So, let's take a look at Valvoline's own current street oils that meet the latest new car API SM requirements. The info is taken from their website:

Conventional petroleum oil…………zinc/phos .083/.076
Synthetic blend oil………………….....zinc/phos .083/.076
Full synthetic oil………………....……zinc/phos .084/.077

You can see their SM rated oils have virtually the same zinc numbers.

Now let's take a look at the "Not Street Legal" oils:

Conventional (petroleum) Racing Oil….zinc/phos .120/.120
Synthetic Racing Oil………………….........zinc/phos .120/.120

You can easily see the roughly 50% increase in zinc and phos antiwear additives. The text that goes along with these two oils says, "Contains increased amounts of zinc for extra engine protection". And then it goes on to say, "Because Valvoline Racing Oil is optimized for racing conditions, it should not be used in passenger vehicles. Using this oil in a passenger car may damage the catalytic convertor over time". This is just what has been discussed at length, previously. And they are not showing modern API ratings.

Now let's take a look at the infamous VR1 "Racing Oil"

10W30 not SM rated and 20W50 SM rated….zinc/phos .130/.120

Hmmmm…….the VR1 shows the most zinc of all, yet is still claiming to be API SM rated, meaning amoung other things, that it won't damage the cats? Not!!! This is not Rocket Science, and you can't have your cake and eat it too. Plus, there is no mention of this oil damaging cats in Valvoline's text or on the bottles, huh??....that makes no sense at all, since they clearly point that out with the other Racing Oil. You can't have it both ways. Let's hope Valvoline just has a misprint on their website, otherwise it would appear to be deliberate misinformation.

If anyone would still want to run VR1 with all this suspect info, then by all means do so. I'm sure it is fine street oil, afterall they can't fake the API rating, just don't bet your engine on it being high in zinc, if that's important to you.

 

Ratpin- "the VR1 shows the most zinc of all, yet is still claiming to be API SM rated, meaning amoung other things, that it won't damage the cats? Not!!! This is not Rocket Science, and you can't have your cake and eat it too. Plus, there is no mention of this oil damaging cats in Valvoline's text or on the bottles, huh?"

From what i understand, the SM rating is just a loop hole. They can rate it SM as long as they put "Not for street use yadayada" or a disclaimer on the bottle. a bit contradictory yes, and confusing. so it "meets" current requirements for wear/volitility, But if you clog up your new camaros cats/ o2 sensor etc you can't go back on valveoline and cry it was rated fine for your car....and the EPA can't bitch about you surpassing there limits for "enviromental concerns"
Also the VR1 specifies something like a 900mi-1k change interval. I wouldn't run it, its expensive and im not sure about it, i know people who do simply because of the "Cool color' .

that NSL might be promising, Keep an eve out for valvoline FLEET in the black bottle, Its CJ-4 (CI-4 backward compatable) so they say. I've heard from diesel guys that the new CJ-4 stuff is actually much better at wear prevention than the older CI stuff, due to the phos & boron package etc. wear metals are down in there lab tests... Damn this stuff is tiring!!!

you may also send new or used oil to a lab for analasys (blackstone-labs.com) will do it for like $20. and tell you what wear is going on, and weather or not your oil is doing a good job.
end of way too long post...

 

Add 1/2 bottle of Comp Cams break in oil additive and you will have no problems

 

Read here www.ZDDPlus.com See what they say about diesel oils in gas engines and racing oil for the street.
Use off the shelf oil w/zddp additive or Powerpunch.

 

shell rotella t is supposed to have a higher zinc content, but im sure any diesel oil would be alright. I use fords motorcraft diesel oil because its cheap for me to buy.

 

CI had the zinc, the current CJ doesn't seem to. There's oil out there marked CJ/SM, if CJ has zinc & SM doesn't, something doesn't add up.

 

Brad penn....enough said

 

Why add zinc to your oil? I'd rather buy VR-1 or Brad Penn and trust their chemists for the right blend. Just remember too much zinc is bad as not enough.

 

I use Shell Rotella T diesel oil which is available in 10W30 and 15W40. I used this in my new GM Performance crate engine and so far so good. I called Shell's tech support to ask more specifics on their oil and they really didn't have much more to say. I found a ton of info on the internet.

If I were in your shoes I would use Shell Rotella T oil and as Don's Hot Rods said, add Lucas break-in lube and you should be just fine.

 

bingo, we have a winner. I have to drive a lo0ng long way to get it but id rather drive a long long way than sit in the shop wondering where I went wrong!

 

i never put synthetic blend oil in my older engines always full mineral, pennzoil used to do an oil called GT Street machine that was full mineral with high zinc etc it was great then they stopped making it, but luckily i found another small little oil company here in NZ that sells a copy of it, its great i run it in all my old engines

 

Which company is that ?- I use Penrite with great results

 

Oilpro in Onehunga, the guy in there is pretty knowledgable they do good stuff