Is there a fitting I can use instead?

I'm using '39 to '48 Ford brakes and am tired of these washers leaking.

I'm using silicone brake fluid which is the whole problem, but before I take it all apart to switch to Dot 3, is there a fitting I can use between the hose and the wheel cylinder instead of the crush washers??

Yes I know already I should not be using silicone and yes I already have tried annealing the washers. I have also used aircraft crush washers along with several different types of washers and they all leak.

 

Changing to DOT 3 should be no more than removing the "5" from the m/cyl, refilling with DOT 3, then doing a very thorough bleeding job. "Taking it all apart" shouldn't be necessary. I went thru the same drill, when I stupidly switched a new truck over to DOT 5,.... Never again, with that stuff !

4TTRUK

 

I've heard that you have to take apart the wheel cylinders and clean them out.

Not true?

 

Check the depth of the wheel cyl. compared to the end of the hose. I have ran into the threads of the hose being too long for the wheel cyl. On the end of the hose there is an inverted flare chamfer machined into it, some times that will bottom out in the wheel cyl. and cause the crush washer not to seal.

 

It is not bottoming out, I can tighten it down all the way without a washer so with a washer it fits.

 

Check the surface where the washer seals, make sure that it does not have any nicks or dings in it. On both hose end and wheel cyl.
You also said that you annealed the washers? What process did you use?

 

TRUE. INCLUDING THE MASTER CYLINDER.

DO NOT MIX DOT 5 SILICONE BRAKE FLUID WiTH ANY OTHER TYPE OF BRAKE FLUID LIKE DOT 3 OR DOT 4. You must first flush the entire system with alcohol otherwise your brake fluid turns to jelly. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...ow-to-tell-which-kind-you-have-DOT-3-or-DOT-5
. I got my ribbed copper washers at NAPA. Been using DOT 5 since 2000.
No problems. Here's more info. http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96196&highlight=COPPER+CRUSH+WASHERS

 

I have had crush washer leakage issues with banjo style fittings that use crush washers..The problem is that the areas that the washers are supposed to seat on did not have the serations that would normally "bite" into the washers...Gees I type slow.....

 

I can't imagine why you are having leakage there, and can't believe Dot 5 is the culprit. I am running exactly the same hose/wheel cylinder setup you have with zero leaks. Ran the same setup on my 23, also no leaks.

Is only one side leaking ?

Don

 

If you've tried various different style washers and they all leak then I would look for other causes such as some sort of defect in the mating/sealing surfaces. I have used both copper and aluminum crush washers without problems.Annealed copper gets pretty soft and should be able to conform to even a poorly machined surface. Also remember if you install a copper washer and tighten and loosen it a number of times it will become work hardened and needs to be re-annealed. What procedure did you use to anneal the copper washers?

 

Why not just get new washers?

 

been running silly cone for 30 years..on a lot of different cars...never had a copper washer leak on anything. I guess I am doing something wrong huh?

 

Can you buy A/N adapters to go in the wheel cyl. then use SS braided hose? Mabey not the look you want, but it would work. Normal Norman

 

I use copper washers that come on british cars, they seem a lot softer than the ones I have found on the street rod stuff. I have even used aluminum washers too..with no problem. I do think many folks are getting washers that are too hard...It is not the fluid.
All my cars do run with high quality AN hoses and fittings too.

 

You either have one or both sealing surfaces w/a flaw in them... DOT 5 is not the problem , been in mine for 11 years w/out issue.

dave

 

I've annealed the washers by heating them with a torch and quenching them in water.
I also did it without quenching them, still had leaks.

I've used several sets of washers from Dorman, Napa, Mac's and now I tried the aircraft washers and those are very soft but still leaky.

Both sides leak, always.

Mating surfaces, I had a new set of wheel cylinders and then I rebuilt another set of original Ford cylinders and that's in there now, same problem, both sides.

This is my third set of brake hoses also, because I too thought it was the mating surfaces just like you guys did. New hoses didn't make a difference.

I cleaned all the mating surfaces with lacquer thinner or wax & grease remover, it didn't make a difference.

 

Do the hoses screw directly into the cylinders or do you have banjo type fittings?
Photos might help.

 

never mind I see the photo

 

The washer I see in the photo. It looks too thin. The ones I use are much thicker.

 

the washer does seem too thin but that may just be the pic.
have you tried another wheel cylinder?

 

I have tried 2 sets of wheels cylinders and many different washers.

 

Take a good look at your bleeders. Thought I had a hose leaking but the bleeder was seeping.

 

Tighten them tight enough? lol. Fluid sure isnt gonna change nothin.

 

Why you using washers? Those hoses should screw direct and seat on the 'double-flare' to make the seal. They tighten against the seat and not against the nut.
I use the copper crushsleeve when i do a banjo-style fitting and those fittings have machined surfaces to seat against and those tighten against the nut.

 

deleted erroneous information............I think I made this same mistake a couple of years ago. Dang!, you'd think a guy would learn..........


Ray

 

That correct for some metals like carbon steel but not copper. The following is the correct process for copper


How To Anneal Copper

The copper should be clean and bright, otherwise oxides will form and become embedded in the surface on heat-up, and should be warmed up with a blow-lamp (a kitchen stove will do this at a push) generally rather than at a specific point, although copper tends to spread heat quickly through the metal.

Once a background heat is produced, when the metal shows different colors radiating away from the heat source, then you are looking for a dark red (plum color) reaching the part you want annealing – it’s like the colors of the rainbow moving from blue through to bright red as the hottest.

Once this occurs quickly immerse the copper you are annealing into a water bath, and that’s it. Job done.

The easy test is to tap it with a screwdriver or something similar. If you hear a ringing sound, the copper is still hard and needs to be annealed again. If the sound is dull then you have annealed the copper properly.

Don’t delay the quenching too much otherwise you will not achieve the annealed copper you were aiming for.

 

What oj said!

 

im not there with you lookin at the car but I would bet my last dollar its not leaking because of what type of fluid you are using. bad sealing syrfaces, crack somewhere there.or the wrong type of fitting being put together.not saying this is your problem but I did have a customer bring us his Harley. wouldn't stop leaking on the rear mc.found out that the mc didn't have the same kind of hose end that his hose had. like hose was set up for d flaired but the mc was just a threaded hole.with no place for the flair ! never seen that one before but there it was.
when you get ready to change over back to dot 3 heres what we do and its has NEVER been a problem. we drain all the dot 5 out of the mc, then open all the wc or caliper fittings and pump pump and pump. never had to take anything apart.then we filled up everything with dot 4 and bleed the system a few times to try and get the rest of the dot 5 out of there.then just bleed them to get ready for brakes again. we have done 4 cars and 2 bikes this way and no problems yet.couldnt sleep the first time I tried this. was afraid id not get it all out and would have jello in the system.after the first try ive not worried one bit about it.now we just drain it good and away we go.i know ill get some shit over this but its the way weve been doing for a few yrs now...and I know it works because one of the cars and one of the bikes is mine....

 

Sure it's really leaking and not just the residual fluid running down off the bleeder and settling there?

 

Yes, those style brakes require copper washers. They do not mate up with a flare. I started installing my hoses before bolting the wheel cylinder to the car. There isn't much room to get a lot of torque with the shape of the ford back plates. Put the wheel cyl in a vice and tighten the piss out of it, then slip it into the back plate.

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!