Will a 56 Hydramatic fit on a 394 Olds engine?

I can get a 56 Olds Hydramatic (not a Jetaway, but the Hydramatic that connects to the crankshaft without a flexplate).
Now, will this transmission fit to the 394 Olds engine?
There must be the whole inside the crankshaft where the drive shaft of the trans will go into.

Thanks for your kind help.

The German

 

Here is a picture of what the crank shaft needs to look like:

On the left!

There is still a fly-wheel that connects to the crank with 6 bolts and to the transmission with 32 bolts.
I read something about one of the 6 crank bolts to be off location. But I don't remember the years that applies to. (Think '56 is one of them...)

Olds gurus?

 

I got a B&M hydro that bolts right up to me 394. It is a '56 case of course and there is a plate that bolts to the cranshaft flange and the torus bolts to the plate.

 

Yes it will bolt up but you will need to have the crank drilled for a pilot bushing / bearing. Be sure to get the steel flywheel that goes with the transmission.

 

As mentioned above there is a flex plate/ring gear/flywheel that bolts to the crank and the torrus bolts to that. It will bolt on the 394.

Pat

 

It's a must to have the flywheel balanced to match the 394's balance spec. It's usually done by welding on a weight.

 

Yea, it'd work...

 

^^^^^^ as 550 says as well as....
the flywheel has to be setup for an externally balanced engine.....none of the hydro wheels where.

 

So, if I read you guys well, you tell me that the hole for the pilot bearing is NOT in a 394 crankshaft, I will need to get it drilled, but still, I will not have the tooth connection to the drive shaft of the transmission...
Long story short, as the 56 Hydramatic does not connect via Flexplate and the 394 seems to be made for the Jetaway (Flex plate connected) the old Hydramatic will not fit.
Right??

 

Question ? is this a cast iron Hydro -- does not have cooling lines ? If it is I know I bolted one to a 64 394 olds -- hole was in end of crank -- had to install pilot bushing in the crank , bolted up now problems -- I'm thinking the tranny was a 54 .

 

Only a few of the 394 cranks were drilled for the pilot bushing as they didn't make many394 std shift cars.....most weren't .the next problem is the early flywheel needed are for internally balanced engines only.... It's not that it can't be done... It's just not a direct interchange until other work is preformed.......unless you like havin the fillings rattled out of your teeth.
And you need an early starter housing as well because of the tooth count difference of the wheel.... 176 vs 166

 

Guys, thanks so much for your great help!!
Yes, it is a cast iron hydramatic, over here they nick name it the "IRON PIG" as it is big and heavy!
It has NO cooling lines!

 

As I posted above I bolted one of those to a 64 394 olds -- was a long time ago --about 1972 the hole was in the crank, the motor came out of a car with an auto tranny ---I don't remember having any issues with flywheel or starter-- I do remember it was a great combo put it in drive & it would shift normal or start in 1st and shift or Boom ! Something else I had this in a 50 Olds & don't remember what gears were in rear axle but 17 mph in drive floor it the tranny would down shift to low low &tires would go up in smoke !!

 

Driving around with a severely out of balance engine would have rattled your brain and eye balls enough to not remember or see exactly what you had done....I say this all in fun sir...

If you had put an early hydro on a 1964 394.....you had placed an internally balanced flywheel (1949-56) onto the back of a externaly balanced engine (1957-58) 371 was the first and then changed again balance weight wise in 1959-62 371-394 and yet again in 1963-64.
The early hydros also needed a pilot bushing to locate the front shaft....this is a must....even though I have seen some inputs hacked off when guys tried to install.....and then project was abandond when Trans wouldn't work.

And finally the hydro wheel is 145 or 176 teeth and much larger dia than the 166 tooth wheel that the 64 came with......not only will the starter not engage... But the 394 housing interferes with the early wheels locking the engine up if bolted on. Thus needing to use the earlier lower housing......and finally if putting a 176 tooth wheel onto a 61-64 block you will need to relieve 2 small spots at the pan rail edge to also clear the larger wheel.

How do I know all of this???? I build a few.

Maybe you didn't use an early hydro but the jetaway from 59......

 

Been there, done that, on a 60 Olds 371. Three things to do: Pilot hole for bearing, counterbalance old hydro flywheel to crank, Install dowels in engine block. The 56 up engines with anything other than old hydro does not have dowels on block, they have them on bell housing of transmission. Easy to find on speedway.com

BTW: Use Pliobond 30 on flywheel to crank bolts and flange. I also use a thin gasket between flywheel and crank flange. Most hydro books say not to put gasket, but why would they show it on an exploded view of engines in Motors manuals? Best gaskets make the torus cover to flywheel gasket, and they even include the above mentioned gasket for crank flange. Look on ebay.

 

IF building a 394 from scratch and IF doing a roots-blown engine with a belt, then I'd suggest converting the crank to internal balance rather than converting the flywheel to external balance. Internal balance is supposed to run smoother at high RPM.

If you do this, then use a neutral-balance crank hub instead of a factory damper. The blower belt will absorb the harmonics, as per BDS's statements. I remember once having a Fisher damper for a roots blower setup, and they just laughed at me and explained that it wasn't necessary.

As for a pilot bushing/bearing in the crank... I don't know about the OD of the bearing/bushing, but the ID is the same as for typical stickshift. That is, the OD of the pilot shaft of the hydro is the same as the typical stickshift. Double-check with your mic or calipers to verify.

If you choose to use a pilot bearing, there are more than one place that sell these for GM engines. HOWEVER, the OD's on these are not all the same. Perhaps the quality isn't, either... who knows anymore. Make a good choice before cutting the crank.

Yes, a '56 Dual-Range Hydra Matic will bolt to a 394. However, that is a slant-pan. You need to make certain you have the '54-6 Olds slant-pan bellhousing piece (half-bell that bolts to the tranny).

I have HEARD that some folks have had small clearance issues putting the dual-range hydro flywheel on a 394.... not sure what the issue was, maybe it was hitting something on a lower starter housing from one of the years? I don't know. I know that NOT all lower bells from all '49-64 Olds engines were cast the same. There were some differences. But supposedly a little grinding will solve this if you discover you have the same problem.


Edit: I see Tony shed some light on the clearance issue. Heck, I think most things were answered already...

 

Oh, I did see someone asked about cooling lines. I am pretty sure the super-heavy-duty units (think BUS, etc.) had cooling lines. I am also pretty sure you will never be able to actually acquire one.

FWIW, I do have some hydro tranny pans that have some sort of fluid fittings on the side.... might be what they came off of. Or maybe not... the super-heavy-duty hydros probably had a very deep pan, and mine aren't exceedingly deep. Again, who knows.

Folks, some of that kind of stuff is long gone never to be found again. Years ago, I did see in a junkyard a '50's greyhound-style bus with a TRANSVERSE-MOUNTED GMC 6 and hydramatic tranny in the back. It was kind of strange seeing a transverse setup on an early hydro. They crushed the bus before I could make a return trip for it...
I bet almost none of this type of heavy-duty stuff still exists. At least not in the kind of capacity that you could actually seek it out.

 

Thanks for the info for flywheel to later lower bell housing. I used the 53 Olds lower bell and starter when I did my conversion and had no problems. Don't remember having to modify pan rail edge. I plan on doing another one of these swaps, but could I use the newer starter with the older starter drive housing and correct pitch starter gear, or would it be better to just install the correct gear on the newer starter and just grind out the bell for clearance? Do they sell the finer ring gear that would fit the early hydro flywheel? (I would think the Jetaway flywheel is same diameter as hydro flywheel, and if this is the case, perhaps the ring gear from Jetaway would fit earlier flywheel.)