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Anyone Use A Threaded Insert In Block for Head Bolt

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by chevymike, May 25, 2013.

  1. Just make sure you have enough meat to open the holes up that far.
    Folks get antsy when a cylinder bore gets opened up .125 on a 4" hole or 3%.
    You are going to go 50%.

    Time serts are approved by GM for block repair.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  2. chevymike
    Joined: Jun 16, 2006
    Posts: 259

    chevymike
    Member

    Yeah, I did use a caliper and got an idea of how much there is. It should be fine.

    Problem with Timeserts is they use a drill hole of .515 and the hole in the block is .625. Bigserts (which are made by the same company) are for oversized holes and use a .640 drill. This would work but no one local has this. To order a kit, looking at over $115.

    A machinist buddy has the stuff for doing E-Z LOC's and if not, they use a standard drill and tap I can by local.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  3. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    Your right Mike, too late for a Time sert. They use an STI tap, like I said before. STI's are the same size as a Heli-coil tap same pitch but goofy diameter. That insert with the red goop on it will work fine if you have room to tap that big. used them many times.
     
  4. el Scotto
    Joined: Mar 3, 2004
    Posts: 4,698

    el Scotto
    Member
    from Tracy, CA

    Yep, me too! :D
     
  5. chevymike
    Joined: Jun 16, 2006
    Posts: 259

    chevymike
    Member

    Okay, lets check this before I do something stupid. My buddy was able to get me some of the thick wall versions of the E-Z LOK inserts. They use a 7/8-9 external thread versus the standard version 3/4-10 thread. Being .125 larger, I am very concerned about the material that is on the water port side of the hole.

    From the edge of the thread to the edge of the water port, it is only .125 wide. Is this enough material to not cause a crack or breakage? Should I go with the 3/4" external thread version, which will give me .0625 more material? Here's a couple pics.

    It looks bigger but it measures .125
    [​IMG]

    The rest seems okay
    [​IMG]
     
  6. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    ChevyMike, is it a blind hole or go through into the water? I THINK I personally would use the 3/4 version. I'm sure you will be OK here too. My Dodge Brothers uses fine threads on the headbolt. NOW that's a no-no in cast iron, guess they didn't know that in '24. When I had the head off one was stripped. I was scared, but it worked out OK. Take your time, plan your moves. I used a big flat piece of steel about 1 inch thick and put the tap drill hole in it on a drill press. I used this as a guide to drill my hole straight. Also used a plate as a tapping guide to get the hole tapped straight. Don't need oil in cast iron. Go slow, save the beer until AFTER the job's done.
     
  7. I damn sure wouldn't make the hole any bigger than absolutely necessary.
    It seems silly to put all that meat of the insert around the bolt @ the cost of taking it away from the out side of the insert.

    If the hole is already too big for a heli coil and a time sert, you are already limited on options. So don't make that worse, you'll be hunting a new block.
     
  8. chevymike
    Joined: Jun 16, 2006
    Posts: 259

    chevymike
    Member

    The hole goes all the way into the water jacket. It's about .717 deep before it opens into the jacket area.

    Yeah, I agree, I would think I want as much material as I can. I think I might be better off getting the standard wall version.

    Still open to opinions and ideas.
     
  9. chevymike
    Joined: Jun 16, 2006
    Posts: 259

    chevymike
    Member

    Well this engine drama just continues. Got the smaller size insert. Drilled and tapped the hole. Well, side to side, I am dead on. For and aft, I am off 1 degree from vertical. It's enough that with the head on, the stud is not going to screw in without a lot of force (bad) or with the stud in the block, the head is off just enough that the alignment pins won't allow the head to drop onto the block.

    The only thing I can think of is to slightly enlarge the hole in the head. Any thoughts or am I screwed???
     
  10. Flat head right ?
    You'll probably be ok on the ream job but the torque load face not being square to the bolt would concern me some.
     
  11. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    I hate to say I told you so, BUT.
     
  12. chevymike
    Joined: Jun 16, 2006
    Posts: 259

    chevymike
    Member

    SUCCESS!!!!! I was able to use an adjustable reamer to open the hole up about .020" and the head fits on correctly!!!! All the studs went in correctly and all the nuts torqued to without any problems. I am so freakin' happy. Started putting the rest of the engine parts on. Hopefully have it ready to go back in next weekend.
     
  13. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    Glad to read your success. HOPE you don't have water seepege from around some studs...
    Standing with you, been there with 'pulled threads'...
     
  14. chevymike
    Joined: Jun 16, 2006
    Posts: 259

    chevymike
    Member

    Hope not. I used ARP thread sealant as they recommend...
     
  15. rjkoop
    Joined: Aug 12, 2013
    Posts: 1

    rjkoop
    Member

    Interesting. I'm having a real issue with my 1981 Fiat Spider that I think this may help. I drilled out a broken off head bolt (and broken off EZ out!) and now I'm left with a large hole that I need to retap. How can I fill the hole? I was thinking metal epoxy and then a large BIG-sert / timesert but the hole is too large. Might I be able to screw in a cast iron pipe plug and then drill retap and use the timesert? The bolt is M10x1.25 and thread is, I think, 20mm long. I need to torque the head bolt to 61 ft/lbs. What options do I have? Here's a picture of the mess I created.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    You are going to get shit for this OT car being your first post. BUT, I once owned a damned Fiat so I;ll try to help. If you are not a machinist you need one. They need to make a drill fixture to redrill a large hole, or clean up what is ther, in the right location,. It might be as big as 18 or 20mm. Then they need to MAKE an insert with the corrct threads on the outside and inside.Unless you ARE a machinist, which it appears you are not from the picture, leave this to someone that knows what they are doing. YSE, I am a machinist and could do this for a VERY good friend. BUT as F'd up as you have that hole it would not be cheap, and they would be hearing me bitch the entire time about calling me BEFORE that ruin something. If you plan to really join this forum read the instructions to do an introduction.
     
  17. I use Keen Serts all the time at work in tooling. Look up the size on the McMaster-Carr site, they're available in a thin and thick wall. The thick wall is the last-ditch effort before resorting to some fancy machining. You may luck out by some freak of a chance.

    But you definitely need the services of a good machine shop whether you can use an insert or have to have a custom piece made up. Expect to shell out around $300 if you need an insert made.

    Bob
     
  18. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,253

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    If you have enough "meat" left, see how a 3/8 taper pipe tap fits the hole.
    It is .675 on the outside.
    If you can get good threads with it, you then make a STEEL insert. Be sure the inside and outside threads are concentric. You can make an inserting tool with a shoulder to drive it in. Do not over torque. It doesn't have to be "squeaky" tight. Install with high temp Loctite.

    I routinely do this to all the head stud holes in model B 4 banger race engines.

    The insert you use on your block will depend mostly on what size thread you can get without going excessively oversize.
     
  19. earlyv8
    Joined: Jan 13, 2007
    Posts: 194

    earlyv8
    Member
    from oklahoma

    Never too old to learn. I had never heard of these types thread repair inserts.

    I had a tractor engine that had been badly damaged by a bad repair and left a head bolt with no holding power. The hole was badly shaped that a prefabricated insert repair was not feasible.

    My solution was to purchase a steel pipe plug. I ground the damaged hole till it was round, threaded the hole with pipe threads, inserted the steel plug.

    I placed the block in my drill press and leveled the drill press and the block deck. I then made a drill guide to fit the head bolt hole, installed the head and drilled the steel plug.

    I then installed a tap into the drill press chuck, to hold plumb to the block to start threads.

    Once the hole was threaded, I installed the pipe plug using JB Weld, then had the block surfaced. After surfacing, I completed assembly.

    Repair is still holding after approximately 20 years.

    Jack
     
  20. Slantsix
    Joined: Jan 31, 2008
    Posts: 5

    Slantsix
    Member

    is the tap size for a time sert 5/8?
    hole is already tapped, 1/2-13 keensert did not work
    time sert and has a longer body and uses a counter bore
     
  21. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    There's a similar thread (no pun intended) over on HotRodders.Com, in the engine forum, and posted by Crosley (he's actually a transmission guy), where he's repairing a SBC that stripped out TWO head bolt holes, and very badly too. Looks to have come out very well, even though it may have been easier to just replace the block. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

    Also, it's been a while since I've had a later style Chevrolet six apart, but is't the raised, threaded boss used to locate the head on the deck? Like the pins are on a SBC/BBC. Is the corresponding head bolt, head surface countersunk at that location? Like I said, it's been a while since I've torn one down. And I have two OT cars with 250's in them. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015

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