I am trying to ID these carbs on this car with a Ford flathead V-8. Anyone know who made them? I am trying to determine which carbs would have been on the 1931 Pierce Arrow land speed car that were stolen long ago. I posted photos of the 4 carb intake three posts down with carb plate specs. Any help would be appreciated. http://books.google.com/books?id=RM...nepage&q=Peter DePaolo preston tucker&f=false
Send a message to Bubba, if he doesn't know he will know someone you does. Remember he's just down the street from The Speedway.
Here's a link to Ryan's thread on the '35 Miller Ford: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246379 Those are Miller carbs- in a nutshell, Preston Tucker brokered a deal between Miller and Henry Ford to build cars for Indy. Ford hesitantly supplied the engines, and Miller built the rest in an extremely short amount of time. Unfortunately, the steering box and exhaust were placed too close to each other, and all of the cars fell out of the race due to mechanical failure (the heat cooked the grease right out of the steering box). A little test-track/shake down time would have solved the problem, but Miller simply ran out of time before the race.
I am trying find out what carbs may have been on this engine.... I just found a return spring retainer almost identical to the one on the Miller Tucker Ford. It is a long piece of flat thin steel with four evenly spaced tapered threadless studs with tiny holes drilled in each one to hold the return spring for each carb. The Pierce Arrow Land Speed car had four separate carbs on four individual custom made intakes. Each intake had a carb mounting flange shaped like a header flange as pictured below. The flange is 3.75" end to end. It is 2.75" from bolt center to bolt center with a 1 and 5/8" intake throat. So basically I am trying to figure out what possible carbs could have been on this Pierce. Anyone know what carbs could have been used? It looks like these Miller Carbs are a two bolt flange and could have fit and used a return spring set up identical to my car.
It is hard to see from the photo of the Miller Ford's engine but that appear to be two bolt set-ups. I'm just trying to find out how many other carbs would have been two bolt carbs or could have fit on my intake.
Difficult to tell from this photo, but the carbs appear to be 4-bolt Winfield downdraft units. I am not an authority on Miller carbs, but have yet to see a downdraft Miller. All of the Millers I have owned or seen have been 2-bolt updraft carbs. As far as 2-bolt downdraft carbs are concerned; there are many. And in the "for what its worth" category: I have seen a number of racing engines designed for use at Indy in the mid-1930's that used downdraft Detroit Lubricator carburetors. These were the 2-bolt single barrel carb that Ford used on the V-8 engine in 1932 and 1933. The two years are slightly different. Another carburetor I have seen on mid-1930's Indy engines are the Stromberg EX series. The size 2 (2 11/16 c-c) would be the type EX-22, and the size 3 (2 15/16 c-c) would be the EX-32. The Stromberg EX series was released in 1933. Jon.
What about the Ford style single barrel carbs, that were used on some 6 cyl engines ? I believe Holley made some of those as well,...And they are an old company,....... 4TTRUK
Your car would have used whatever carbs suited the builder's fancy. There were several carbs with 2 bolt flanges. It was the most common carb for inline six or straight eight engines. Only V8s used 2 barrel carbs. You can use whatever fits, it's your car and no one can tell you what it had. Most race cars used several different carbs anyway, it was one of the things they changed in search of better performance.
So far, all of those who have called asking about carbs for these old replica Indy race engines have been interested in duplicating a known build, thus carburetors that would have been used on the known build; or if this is not possible then at least carburetors that would have been available when the engine being replicated was built. And so far, these engines have been from the early/mid-1930's. Yes, Holley is an old company, but the first Ford six using a Holley downdraft of which I have a record is 1941, thus making it less desirable for a mid-1930's engine. Holley (Chandler-Groves division) did offer a single barrel downdraft in 1937 (Packard and Plymouth); but it is constructed from unobtanium and verypricium, and is exceptionally difficult to make work as a single, let alone in multiples. Interestingly (at least to me), these early Holley downdraft carburetors used many Stromberg parts! Jon.
I was hoping that the type or make of carb might hold clues about the build too. But since there are so many one barrel variants that seems impossible. Interesting that this car is downdraft and most carbs of the day were updraft though. What about the return spring hold down for the 4 carbs similar to the one on the 35 Miller-Tucker? Does that provide any clues as to the return spring configuration that may help ID the carbs used?
In reading various threads on the internet, I come up with years 1929, 1930, and 1931. From your information, and the pictures provided, it would appear that the engine used four S.A.E. size 2 downdraft carburetors. There were NOT a lot of choices in this time period. Without really spending a lot of time, I can think of the Winfield S, and the Stromberg DX-2 Other companies downdraft introduction: Carter 1931 Holley (Chandler-Grove) 1937 Zenith 1933 Rochester 1950 If you can come up with a picture of the carbs, contact me. Jon.
Another thread suggests that the car was built SOMETIME in the 1930's but used a 1931 engine. If true, then a little PURE SPECULATION!!! Pierce-Arrow offered a 12 cylinder engine in 1932 which used Stromberg type E-2 carburetors. In 1933 Pierce-Arrow increased the displacement of the 12 and had Stromberg produce the larger EX-32 carburetors. So from the standpoint of Pierce, they purchased a minimum run of Stromberg E-2 carbs which were used one year only on the 12. I do not know the total production of 12's in 1932, but doubt it was large. Pierce probably had a few of these carbs left over, and few customers to buy them. The Stromberg E-2 is a size two carburetor (2 11/16 c-c) that would fit on your manifold. My guess would be they would have been fairly inexpensive in the mid-1930's. However, as classic car restoration became the hobby we know today, these very low production carbs for a 12 cylinder car (expecially since the pot metal is prone to failure) are very much in demand. This might be why, while the car is relatively complete, the carbs are missing. Today, regardless of the size of your checkbook, you have a much better probability of winning an argument with the IRS than finding four Stromberg E-2 carbs. Again, total speculation, based on the thread stating the year the car was built is unknown. Jon.
There are only 26 known 1932 V-12 Pierce Arrows. In 30 years of looking I have never seen any E-2 carbs offered for sale. The 1933 to 1938 EX-32's are unique to Pierce Arrow applications, but there were two different EX-32 bodies using lots of different parts on a hand full of makes. EX-22's look similar, but I don't know if they use the same size mounting flange. Mallory made a aftermarket hot rod style distributor for Pierce, and I have seen a single Webber updraft to replace a UU-2 or UUR-2 as used on your stock engine (29-32). There was also an aftermarket Mag to run dual plug heads and a dual ignition set up. They are very rare. Here is a photo of a EX-32. Ed
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