Hey there. i've recently come into a chopped '51 Pontiac. the chop job is great, but the windows are unfinished. i have the the window garnish and i'm looking for tips/tricks/tutorials on the best way to reshaping them for my new window geometry. the PO started the driver's side garnish and got it pretty close, but to my eye it'll take a bit of grinding and filling to get it smoothed out. he made a series of radial cuts to bend and shorten the garnish around the corners. seems effective, but i was wondering if that is the best way to go about it. i've scoured YouTube looking for tuts, but zero luck. i'm not experienced (at all) with welding or brazing super thin sheetmetal like these are made of. i'm 100% positive i'm going to make a mess of it unless i have some sort of backer bars to take the heat. i was thinking if you cut the garnish, got it all reshaped to the size and angles you want, then backed it with strips of thicker sheetmetal before welding you'd stand a better chance of avoiding warping and burn-through. thanks for any help. k
Welding thin metal is hard. No way around that. Backing it with steel will only give you bog globs on the backside, as the backer will stick. You may be able to back it with hunks of copper, as that won't weld itself to the molding. But here's the key: tight fitting gaps, and low heat. If you fit everything like you are building a jigsaw puzzle (it has to 100% correct or it's no-go) then you will probably get a good result. When doing moldings I think it's best to clamp/screw the chopped parts into the car, so you know they are fitting the opening. And when you do that there is no way to hold a backer behind the weld. So you will just HAVE to learn to weld thin metal.
It may well depend on where you want to do the reshaping. If the chop is on the straight part of the window frame, pretty simple, the curves at the corners are more difficult. The way we have done it is w/o backers, just tack weld let it cool and add another and another until it is welded. Then grind it smooth. Like everything else it is just getting started and staying with it...good luck
a necessary skill that will pay off endlessly when you start working with patch panels. Be careful if you decide to use a backing heat sink...where the backing material is not in direct or even contact with molding, like were you have curves, you'll have greater opportunity for blow through, which could ruin your day
what do ya'll use to cut the material? die grinders or saws? a grinder wheel will make the most precise cut, but remove the most material.
to each their own, I usually use a cutoff wheel. band saw might work well if you're concerned about loosing too much material.
Fit them on the car where they go and mark and cut with a thin cut off wheel[045]... Then afterthe first cut remark and recut the upper to actuall fit the car again... use 2" mask tape to hold garnish on the door and actualyl align and tack weld on the car to start. then remove to finish welding. a common mistake is getting the "vertical fit" too tight.....that will result in the garnish being too tight against the upholstery on door and quarters..... allow about 3/8" to 1/2" up and down movement for a best fit that way.... TIP of the day: usually the door and even the quarter garnishs will need lengthened or shortened in length as well as height. shortening is easy,as you would assume,but lengthening means adding a short 1"-1-1/2" section or so and often that is a difficult job fitting and aligning the garnish together.... a good way is on your door garnish to lengthen without adding a peice is this- mark the cuts on the garnish=AND the door-....this allows you to reuse the front upper sections of each and swap from rt to left then you actually cut some off,those- for a perfect fit with no addition,and one less weld too. a lot of time the same principal applies to the actual door top as well[using rt door top's front peice[flipped] on the left door]... another idea is to clamp your tacked door garnish on a flat table or platform and assure the thing is straight as you weld it completely..... always clean the garnish parts to bare steel too for best results..
Rocky, thanks so much for the pix. my one almost-done garnish looks a lot like yours, except whoever did it had to change one of the corner radiuses (radii?) fairly radically...he sorta scored the corner with many small cuts that almost went through to the outside, then bent the corner into shape. i would have guessed that would cause the material to buckle, but it didn't looks like it just needs some cleanup and filling. Choprods, thanks, too. obviously you've done this a few times and have learned some tricks. i'm having trouble visualizing what you mean by swapping and flipping the sections left-for-right. i'll have to get in front of them and hold them up to see if i can save on any lengthening using your technique.
oh...one more question: i was at swap meet last weekend and i spied a ton of window garnish from Chevys of similar vintage, but not a single Pontiac in the bunch. if you squint and look at the Chevy garnish it looks like it could almost fit, especially if you consider you'll be chopping the hell out of it. at the very least it could make donor material for mess ups, or simply practice? thoughts?
EXAMPLE.... when you cut the door tops off to remove=[do the lowest cut first]......same on inside... This leaves a peice on the front half of door top [and garnish] that is longer[by amount of your chop in inches] than the peices needed to fit on your opposite side which can be trimmed [and swapped side for side]to actually fit with no addition... This works on the outer door tops as well..... it may take some "plot" marks on outer door tops [and on the drip rail] to be able to actually tell how "long" the peices end up,before you cut..... If the two peices of garnish vary in width try this= again,using the thin cut off wheels,slice the offending peice and widen or narrow with a pry tool,then tack the matched end together.... Then take the smallest size Acetylene welding rod[1/32"??]]].....and use that as a fill rod with the Mig as a heat source.... It flows the sliced area till easily filled,[without blowing holes]=grind flush and problem solved.
oh. now i get it. you were talking about doing the garnishes at the same time you did the door chops. unfortunately the roof and doors were already chopped before i got the car. but thanks for the sage advice.
Are you implying that whoever chopped it, layed the posts back? Cut them and angled them them farther back? You should be able to tell this by looking at the base of the windshield post, or vent window, look for cuts/mismatch metal there. If so, you have a more complicated problem than just cutting the moldings. Yes, making a series of cuts partway through the radius will work. Bit of a Frankenstein job though. When I did a custom Packard chop I had to re-radius the rear quarter windows. I would up making a hammerform out of wood to make the new radius, then spliced the new radius piece into the existing window frame. I could use one form for both sides, as it was only the radius I needed to change. You can find more info on making a hammer form here on the HAMB, they are easy , and you can make some fine looking pieces with them.
The tool of choice is a"pistol grip" 4-1/2" or 5" air sander.... add a thin cutoff wheel[.045]....with.7/8" hole].... [The other cutoff tools with the 3/8" small hole-2" wheels are wimpy and hard to get cut thru a big cut so are pretty worthless actually].... now turn the sander over 180 degrees-where the wheel is running vertically[like a small version of a skilsaw]HOLD IT WITH BOTH HANDS]....this allows you to be out of the spark trail and off to one side of wheel for debris or wheel failure]..... throttle the tool to ABOUT 1/2 max speed and be careful. [Definitely=do not use electric grinders for this at all.] this works very well and is as safe as any other method. I use this method and have for almost 20 years,having decided a sawzall or electric tool is too bulky,dangerous= and hard to do precision cuts like these can do.... I even use these for all the outside/post cuts as well..... wear a face shield and safety glasses and as I said do not run the tool at top speed=ever.
yes, that's exactly what i mean. the B pillar is raked forward pretty severely. looks great, just a toughie to match up the garnish on.
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