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A question for the drag racers

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by drumyn29, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,198

    drumyn29
    Member

    Did racers from the 60's run a Crankcase Evacuation System or is that new technology? I'm building a vintage hilborn injected small block and not sure if installing one would make much of a difference horsepower or pressure blown seals and gaskets.
     
  2. mike hohnstein
    Joined: Dec 4, 2011
    Posts: 262

    mike hohnstein
    BANNED
    from wisconsin

    I remember a kit called 'Vac-U-Pan', can't say when they were produced I bought a couple in the mid 70's. Any thing you can do to reduce pressure in the crankcase is a good thing.
     
  3. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

  4. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    First appeared early seventies, first place I ever saw it was Jenkins, around '73.
     

  5. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    And he was using special 2 ring pistons,
    Never saw a 850hp 410ci sprint car running them either.
     
  6. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,198

    drumyn29
    Member

    Hoekum?
     
  7. black 62
    Joined: Jul 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,895

    black 62
    Member
    from arkansas

    usually not needed...
     
  8. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,257

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Keeping the case pressure negative results in cleaner combustion, better ring control, which in turn will create more power. It's worth doing whether it's vintage or not. So I would approach it as a challenge to either hide it or devise a system with old parts as if you were experimenting back in the day.
     
  9. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,457

    oj
    Member

    The sprints have drysump and that gives very good vacuum.
     
  10. powrshftr
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 4,543

    powrshftr
    Member

    Most of the early '60's stuff ran stock Chrysler Firepower or Corvette covers with aftermarket breathers installed....check out the Mooneyes catalog for some really cool looking stuff that really fits the vintage drag "vibe"...
     
  11. greg32
    Joined: Jun 21, 2007
    Posts: 2,231

    greg32
    Member
    from Indiana

    On the dyno, I saw 12 hp @ 8 inches of vacuum. N/A 528 BBC. Problem is the vacuum pump fights oil pressure. People go overboard and end up with real low oil pressure. Not a big fan of pumps.
     
  12. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Not when you run a 1 1/4 crossover tube with breathers attached to the valve covers.


    At what RPM range did you see those numbers on that BBC?
     
  13. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,198

    drumyn29
    Member

    By chance do you have a picture of crossover tubes?
     
  14. to answer your original question:No,we used breathers on the valve covers
     
  15. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Like a lot of stuff that gets passed off as hokum, its not the vacu-pan in and of itself that makes power as much as other things that the vacu-pan allows you to get away with. Like much lower oil ring/second ring tension...
     
  16. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,457

    oj
    Member

     
  17. iagsxr
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 247

    iagsxr
    Member

    So your vacuum cleaner doesn't suck because there's a hole in the end of the hose?

    Multi-stage dry sump negates the need for a separate vacuum pump.
     
  18. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    [​IMG]
     
  19. iagsxr
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 247

    iagsxr
    Member

    Barnes 4-stage; one stage pressure, three stages scavenge=massive vacuum

    The engine has to be vented to atmosphere or it will suck main seals in<-IN.

    [​IMG]

    Then don't forget the tank has to also be vented to atmosphere;

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
  20. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    Nope, we never thought of using one.
     
  21. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,198

    drumyn29
    Member

    my motor
     

    Attached Files:

  22. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,955

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    Ive seen some electric powered ones around here. They get them off of the Oldsmobile Quad Four engines. Salvage yard item and you can hide it. Wes Wells used one on his P/S bike as well.
     
  23. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Yup, you cant build a vacuum if yer suckin' wind...:p
     
  24. chasracer54
    Joined: Dec 30, 2012
    Posts: 17

    chasracer54
    Member

    Jenkins stuff - early 70's is about when it showed up. Something similar that the stocker guys did was run PCV units in both covers, tied together and tee-d to intake manifold under the carb. It was good for a few horses with the right ring package.
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  25. greg32
    Joined: Jun 21, 2007
    Posts: 2,231

    greg32
    Member
    from Indiana

    From about 6000 to 9200. It made vacuum down lower, but didn't see any hp gain. This is a nitrous motor, large ring end gaps, any a fair amount of blow by.It is a dry sump. They work, but most over state the real power gain. If you crank the pump up to 12 lbs or more,I have seen 0 oil pressure registered. Not a fan unless you need that last few ponies.
     
  26. lht
    Joined: Jan 18, 2013
    Posts: 243

    lht
    Member

    don't know about the 60's but in 70's we ran evacuation lines from valve cover breathers to bungs on exhaust collector
     
  27. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    What type of CAR are you building this engine for?

    This is the way I am veiwing it

    You are taking this engine and puting it into a dragster/altered to run Nostalgia. The only classes this engine will fit into are ther NE based on index ET's of 7.60-8.60-9.60 (whereas the most common for an Injected is NE-2, 8.60) If that motor can run like it is an 8.50, there is know reason to spend money to go faster. If you plan on running zoomies, there is not enough exhaust signal to open the valve, If there was, you would see the valve on one pipe instead of after the collector as they do. Zoomies are lighter that collector headers thus negating hp gain by the evac system do to weight.If you are not willing to totaly examine your engine combo to utilize the evac and change it then it is a waste of money. I could make 2000HP buying parts out of Summit/Jegs if I listened to all the claims--we all know it isnt true. K&N filters claim 15HP just by useing their filter, and by their dyno, the claim is true @ 6500 rpm, but the rpm one runs it on the street, it does nothing but filter the air.
    Take the engine as you have it now, run the pump off the cam, switch to zoomies, vent the top(middle) of the valve covers to a puke tank--put it into a dragster/altered and go have fun racing it.
     
  28. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,198

    drumyn29
    Member

    It's going in a full blown drag car
     

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