Leaf Spring Sliders info needed

Not speculation. I know guys that ran them. I ran leafs with shackles on my dirt car. I was looking for a better set up and talked to the guys that were running sliders. Mud wasn't the problem. Dust/grit was the problem. The early ones used on race cars had two problems. Dirt would get in the bearings. You'd have to keep pumping grease in to flush them out, and it takes very little dirt in the runners to bind them up. The modern ones may be better I don't know.

 

Good to know. What I had read was a lot of "I heard that..." and "I bet that dirt is a problem". How did the older ones you experienced differ from these new roller bearings?

I wonder if there's a way to prevent that (like drilling drainage holes in the runners) or if it's even necessary in cars primarily driven on the street.

I'm going to call AFCO with some questions

Speedway


AFCO

 

I did a look at the Speedway page, & the cost is quite a bit lower... was reading the notes, & they are not using a sealed bearing... I'm sure I could get commercial replacement sealed bearings in that size, I have many I use in our packaging room, & they are constantly in a very dusty & sticky powder situation where the PH runs from 4.5 to 5.5 ( acid ) the sealed bearings hold up for 6 months to a year in this envirnoment getting exposed to hot water hosing once a week... & only cost $13.00 each... so it would be a worth while upgrade for my use

 

It's probably been 20 years since I saw them...they were not sealed bearings. I don't remember how they were greasing them, but they talked about having to grease them to push the dirt out.
These were on 2350# late models. Using sealed bearings like Magnum wheel suggests would be better. Grit on the tracks may not affect movement as much on a heavy streeter as it did on a light weight dirt car.

 

Yeah, sealed bearings would be better.
The Speedway ones are 3/16 vs 1/4 on the Afco sliders, I think. That and a name brand probably explains the huge price difference.

I wonder how well the UHMW bushing pucks hold up on street use. Dirt cars ride hard, but only a few dozen miles at a time.

 

as I've been going back & forth on springs, length , size, eye measurements etc. I think I'm going to build my own... my fabricator buddy could easily bend the U shape & machine out the tracks, & I'd finish them up... probably use 3/16" stock ( how heavy were the ones you got??? )

BTW... good commercial sealed bearings are durable & pretty cheap... if you don't have a good local supplier, like I do, you could order them from Grainger or McMaster Carr... they are pretty easy to match up, the non sealed bearings that came in the unit, should have a number stamped onto them...

the bearings I'm talking about using are on my heat seal bag closer, very dusty, sticky, low PH & hot all week, spinning continually 12 hours a day, then get a hot water wash down once a week, & allow to dry over the weekend not a very bearing friendly environment

I'm sure they would outlast the teflon blocks in either street or track use... & even if I find that they need to be replaced every couple years, well worth the $13-$14 per bearing, for the smoothness, & control, as well as the lower ride charictoristics

 

I use the afco bearing type sliders with no issues at all and i do angle them and yes it works very well and it is street driven car look at my profile and i have some pics of the rear of the car there is a great deal of geometry you need to plan carefully before you start cutting?if you have any Q's feel free to call me 502-387-2423 "Tadd"

 

Send those oversized pieces back order the afco units and you'll be very happy you did...my 2 cents!

 

I'll pass. I'm keeping the sliders I have. Are they overkill? Yes, I'm sure they are. But, who cares? Like I said before, I was going with either the Afco or the knockoff bearing sliders. I too would have swapped out the bearings for sealed units. I could very well do the same with the ones I have as well. No reason why I couldn't. I'm sticking with the UHMW pucks. The more I research the stuff, the more confident I am with it. Applications like this is what it was designed for. Actually, far worse environments. A buddy of mine who is one of out building maintenance guys, a mill worker, knew all about the stuff. They use it all over our building, UPS. Our system runs at least 20 hours a day. The UHMW is used for slides, to bridge the gap between two belt systems, Motor bushings, you name it. They have crap running over them all day long and they never get replaced. The fasteners holding it in place fail now and then, but the actual UHMW doesn't. Plus it is super slick so everything glides over it. I showed him one of the sliders and he laughed at me. Told me I will never need the extra set of pucks I bought. I'm sure the sealed bearing is a perfectly reliable way to go, I still believe that. At the same time, I don't think any less of these pucks.
One thing I was thinking about with the bearing sliders. There has to be a tiny bit of play in the track or the bearing wont be able to roll. The bearings can't ride on the upper and lower track at the same time and still be able to roll. The UHMW puck is snug against the upper and lower track yet it still glides freely. No play. What about when the spring is twisting? Side forces on the bearings up against the side of the slider. It's gonna effect the bearing and at least cause some friction. I think that's where the UHMW might have an advantage. It's slick in all contact points to the slider so it should never have issues moving in the track.
Anyway, not trying to debate one over the other. If I had the Afco sliders, or one of the generic bearing versions, I'm sure I would be perfectly happy. Any one of them would be more than good for my build. It seems that in the extreme off-road environment, the pucks hold up better. But on the street, I can't imaging either ever having an issue. I think it's safe to say that either setup will last a very long time as long as they are checked now and then and the tracks kept clean.
If you make some, post up pics. I thought about it as well. Just don't have a way to cut the slots out. Had I paid a machine shop to do it for me, there goes the savings by doing it myself and I would have been better off just buying them. So I did.

 

I have the liquid iron sliders on my jeep. they work good.

 

my only concern with the "teflon" sliders, is all the tortional stress is placed on the narrow sides... being mine will be a front mount, maybe more stress in cornering, than a rear spring application...

otherwise, yes, we use those plastic sliders quite a bit in the food ingredient industry, they do wear, but hold up better than most would think "plastic" would hold up...

I'm just getting ready to do my frame mods now ( will likely take a couple months ) & the sliders will be incorporated in that time frame, so if this thread pops up when I've got mine built, I'll for sure post some pics... otherwise I will have pics on my build thread

 

I just talked to AFCO:

1. They use a sealed bearing. Not sure about Speedway.

2. They said that dirt/grit is a concern because of the close tolerance between the bearing and the rail, but they haven't heard too many complaints about it. He reccommended spraying graphite on the rails on a street car which will help clean them and keep them sliding smoothly, while also preventing rust.

3. He said that on a street car that sees some drag strip time that installing the slider level/parallel with the frame is ideal. Setting it at an angle is usually only done with serious drag cars that see a lot of chassis articulation. I don't think it will hurt anything though.

4. I've read a lot saying that the bearing should be set 1/3 of the way into the track.. and other say 2/3 of the way in. Afco says that on a street car that sees some drag strip time, the bearing should be set smack dab in the middle of its travel range in the track.

5. Since their units are set up for Chrysler style springs (2.5" wide with a 1" spring eye) and I have Ford springs (2.25" wide with a 1.125 eye) that I would be OK using spacers and a bushing to make up the difference, but he would not reccommend cutting/rewelding the box itself.

6. As for how they hold up on street cars, he said "well, it depends on how much you drive it, honestly". He added that keeping them lubed with spray/wet graphite will add to their life.

They don't offer the pucks, so I didn't ask.

 

Thanks for the additional info... I planned to lay mine parallel with the frame ( just welding it onto the frame rails, & with the tracks running parallel to the frame ) & placing the shaft in the middle... being that my ( front ) springs will be shorter, the tracks could be shorter, but I plan on 4-5" of track length... my front eye will be on a newly fabbed frame cross mount, just inbound of the frame rails, & the slider will be on the frame rail at the needed slight angle

 

Rock on with what you got...it'll work just as long as you set it up correctly!

 

Speedway says their slider uses "a kind of sealed type bearing, sort of". He added that it was not greaseable. I pointed out that their catalog says that it needs "periodic lubrication". He went on to explain that it has a removeable rubber seal so that the bearing is not exposed, but that in dirt racing application, you will need to periodically pry back the seal and lubricate the bearing with some WD40 or something similar to clean, flush, and lube the bearing.

I may try this and if it binds or becomes a problem, replace it with a better quality sealed bearing then, like Magnum suggested

 

I'm sure for "on road" use you'll likely be fine, if these are finding their way on Jeeps & such, they can get exposed to all kinds of "stuff" I used to do everything from sand drags, mud bogs, tough trucks, rock climbing, & still drove mine back & forth to work... if you can keep the sand, road salt & mud out of it, I'm sure you could get a couple years out of it with no maintenance

 

FYI, I ordered a set of Speedway's "heavy duty" sliders. They seem pretty decent. The bushings are lightweight brass. The bearings are sealed. The box says "designed in the USA, manufactured in Taiwan"

 

Can Speedway sliders be narrowed to old spirng width of 1 3/4 in.?

 

I don't see why not, but you'd have to narrow the box and bushings. Like I said above, the AFCO guy did not recommend narrowing, but thought using spacers/shims would work. He is also likely legally limited in what he can say in regards to modifying their products.

 

I have a fabricator buddy with a huge press... I'm going to make my own out of 1/4" stock that fit my 1 3/4" springs

 

will be picking up my bent & milled steel outer portion to my sliders today ( ended up using 3/16" stock ), also just picked up a set of 9/16" X 4" grade 8 bolts, & after I get the outers picked up, on the way home, I'll stop by my local bearing store, the bearings I'm using are a stock item 9/16" shaft, 1 3/8" outer diameter, & 7/16" thick, & are commercial sealed bearings... after I have the pieces together, I can final mark, to get my bearing runners welded on... I'm going to use square stock, rather that "L bend" stock like the prefab units have... it'll give me a more square corner for the bearing to run on, & will be stronger... my new springs, are 1 3/4" wide, & I ordered bronze collars, to press into my spring eyes, that are 3/4" OD, & 9/16" ID, & 1 7/8" long... should be able to post some pics later this weekend or early next week of where I'm at in building them

 

Cool. Keep posting details. I bought mine from Speedway, but I haven't had time to test fit them yet.

 

was going to take them home from my fabricator buddy, but I had picked up the bearings before I went over there, so I just left them there to get the flat bearing runner pieces welded on ( needed the bearings for precise fitment )... they should be completed this week, & I should be able to lay out my spring placement, & get them tacked to the frame ( maybe ) this weekend... I'll post some pics, when I get to that point

 

The ones I posted use flat stock as well. I'm not using mine now as I've decided to install the Jaguar IRS.

 

Well, because I decided to go ahead and install the Jag IRS, the Liquid Iron Insustries Sliders are for sale. Here is a link to their site. http://www.liquidironindustries.com/product.php?productid=17611

I paid $180 with the extra set of bushing for them. I am asking $150 shipped with the extra set of bushings. Never installed or mocked up. They have been sitting in the box since I bought them. Only took them out to take the photo below. They are unique and would be something different for your build.

 

Any pics of the finished job? How did they end up working for you? How much drop did they give? Holding up good so far? Just curious, I am looking at the speedway ones and deciding which way to go.

 

If you read the above post, I am selling them. Never did anything with them other than hold them up to my frame. I decided I couldn't not use the Jag IRS that I have. I was gonna go the slider route because I didn't want to regear the Jar rear but I decided I had to use it. So the sliders are for sale. I posted them a while back but nobody was interested. Havn't tried selling them since. If you are interested, let me know.

 

Any details on the Jag install?

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I havn't touched the truck since before Thanksgiving. I've been doing a bunch of upgrades to my C5 Corvette. I had the truck stashed away in the garage for winter being it's bare metal. I'm just waiting for the weather to be consistant so I can pull it out and get back on it. Here's the install thread. I am at a stage of just needing to buy the parts I need for the install of the Jag rear. It's all planned out on how I'm doing it, which is a little different than what others have done but I think it's gonna be a hell of a setup.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=556832

 

Thanks for all the info, I am working on getting a set of the heavy duty ones for my pinto cdrag car