TECH: Johnny1290's Po-Boys Shoebox Ford Builder's Guide

Rich, are your fab skills good enough to make your own. You could use some square or rectangle tubing (heavy wall of course) and cut your own. They could be as tall or short as needed ie built in blocks. Just a thought.

Threw this together in MS Paint to give you an idea of what I'm thinkin. If I remember right the springs are 2" wide so you would need 2x3 or 2x4 tubing (probably could use 2x2 but they would be short). I think I would try to use 1/4 wall but I tend to over engineer things. The axle does'nt need to be real deap into the pad (check OE pads for reference here). Anyways its nothing more than a simple bracket, just make 2 the same (easier said than done sometimes).

Eric

 

Bump for edit. I just added the following info about what it costs to build a shoe from a basket case:


EDIT 3/26
Someone asked on shoeboxford.com about a basket case build, and this was my reply as to what it costs to build it. Thought it might be helpful to someone.


all this stuff is parts only

front end rebuild-$450 ish via Kanter, but you have to R&R the kingpins yourself ( I spent over $300 on a machine shop to do the kingpins an install the new shafts, and they botched it, but they said the kingpins were hell) and you still have a stock centerlink and idler arm that I'll guarantee both are junk and need replaced, might as well drop another $220 on a fatman trick tie rod kit and do it right and get a modern idler arm that doesn't need replacing every 10k, reudces steering effort, reduces bump steer, and you can also install these 1" lower (bend the pitman down an 1" as well) and you won't have interference probs with your SBC anymore. Springs-$200+ for drop springs or $70 for aerostar. You still have a steering box that I'll guarantee is no good, that's , I dunno, $400 for a rebuilt one that will still be lousy? or spend around $400 to do a volvo steering conversion. You might get away with adjusting the one you have but don't count on it. Spend $400 on drop spindles and $150+ on drop steering arms for another 3" of drop if you want.

Your hoodlatch sucks and will let go when you're at speed. It happens to 9 out of 10 shoebox owners, it'll happen to you. Either just put a safety chain on it that you'll forget the one time you need it, or replace with a dual latching system off a late model. I used one from a late model full size van and it works excellent, for well under $20 at pickapart.

Your brakes are no damn good, the drums are arond $80 each, 20 or 30 each for wheel cylinders...might as well just get an ECI disc brake kit so you can actually stop the thing, that's about $500 shipped or around $200 if you buy the parts locally , may save a hundred bucks or so.

You still don't have a master cylinder, I'd suggest (after mucho junkyard hits and misses)just spending $200 -got mine at piratejacks.com-to get a universal firewall mounted brake pedal and 8" dual booster and 1 1/8" dia MC.

Drop in a chevy or ford engine, use a butch's rod shop or Opie's motor mount kit(around $150) (see ebay or Jamco) and also you may or may not need a dual sump oil pan. My car has homemade mounts but I still have some flywheel/centerlink interference at full lock to the left.
On a SBC use some Sanaderson block huggers or modify a rams horn(around $300 for sandersons).

See this link for more info on the stock front suspension and why it stinks:
http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/0902sr_1949_1951_ford_steering_motor_mounts/index.html

Replace those worn out door hinges because I'm sure they need it, pretty cheap if you don't buy the stainless replacement screws, from shoeboxford.com, under $50 but lotsa sweat.

I'm sure your floorboards are rotten because they always are, spend what you want, EMS is top notch and $$$, there's a kit on ebay from smittys speed shop that gives you everything from toeboards to below the rear seat for $500 shipped. You can also just roll your own, but cut outs from shoeboxford.com, cheaper versions from ebay, just depends on what you want to spend.

Your door latches stink and work for crap, adjust them all day and maybe get them to work or just replace with the large size bearclaw kit for under $150.

Your gastank is full of rust and needs replaced(don't even bother cleaning/resealing, its futile), throw it out and replace that rusty trunk floor while you're at it with a '65-70 Mustang gas tank for around $150.

Surprisingly, your rearend is probably just fine as it seems to take a lot to kill one of these spicers, and I'm sure the flathead didn't exactly tax it very much. Don't forget, you can always swap these pumpkins for a different gear ratio, it's quite easy and only costs about $60 or less to ship one cross country in a big paintbucket.

Even the most anemic V8 will be spinning your skinny 205-75-15 tires(my tired 305 sure did). You can supposedly kill the stock rear if you abuse it. I don't know anybody that has, but it makes sense.

Switch to a 5 lug 8" Maverick rear (other options are 57-59 narrow 9" ford found in rancheros, wagons, etc and a 65 mustang 8" rear) I paid $60 for mine without drums, I've heard of others paying $150 for the same thing, up to $300, so YMMV. Most likely you'll get a highway friendly 2.79 ratio(look on the tag), I got lucky, after cleaning away the gunk I discovered mine was the 3.0. Any other 8" ratios are either aftermarket or scarce as hens teeth, so don't plan on just grabbing one at the local yard. Drums on the Maverick are also in the $80 a piece range, so I spent $85 on half price day at pickapart and got a full take off from a 97ish crown vic with rear discs. These are more or less a bolt on. You can also buy the same thing from ebay for around $200 delivered if you don't feel like pulling them yourself.

Your wiring is junk, spend what you want on this, I paid $200 for a rebel wire 18 circuit kit and had plenty for all my girly non traditional junk like power windows and cruise control(!)
American Autowire makes an AWESOME kit for $450ish in its highway series that comes with all new switches and lots of pre-terminated ends. If your car is from a barn anyway, all your switches are junk, this is the way to go, unless you like chasing down all those pieces individually.

Tires are 205/75/15 in radials, I got a deal from some tiny place that advertised on craigslist, paid under $250 for 4 installed. They're coopers and the traction sucks, but they have 3/4" whitewalls that grind out to around 2.5" whitewalls.

Rear suspension: your bushings are shot and you need new leaf springs, I bought some posies 3" drop springs for about $400 shipped, add new shackles and bushings for another $75 or so.

Almost forgot! Add $100 for new door fuzzies as I'll guarantee yours are shot. Add $100 for vent window rubber. Add $85 for door rubber. Add $40 for trunk rubber. Add around $50 for new rubber hood stops and the piece between the cowl and the hood.

You also *will* need insulation inside to keep the heat out from your V8 conversion. IT GETS H O T in there! This falls under the spend what you want variables, that goes along with interior.

Add another $100 for cheapie autozone shocks at all 4 corners.

Add a couple hundred dollars for a rear sway bar to control some of the body lean, or rumor has it you can adapt one from a Ranger.

soooo...adding it up I'm gonna just say $500 for engine/trans, $200 for exhaust(mine was more like $400 but a million variables here), say you can use your stock radiator, door glass, spring $100 for door fuzzies so the windows don't rattle you to death, $220 for cheapo tires, say $1300 on the front end, $300 for headers(you might find something cheaper that works),$50 door hinges, say average $100 for sheetmetal to fix the floor, $150 for latches(gotta have doors that stay shut), $150 for the gas tank(gotta have a gas tank), say $200 for wiring(you scrimped a little), say $250 on the stock rear brakes(give or take), $250 on the stock front brakes, $20 on master cylinder rebuild kit, $75 on the rear bushings (you just ran the leaves as-is or took a few out to lower the rear-horrible ride but looks great!)...that adds up to around $4,000 for a car that doesn't have paint or interior and just a pretty bare bones drivetrain, but is a real, driveable car(albeit one with crap-o stock 4wdrum brakes, but power discs adds $700ish when you're done).

So if you got a $1000 car to start with, you could have something on the road that's a driver for 5 grand plus a lot of sweat equity. Start adding for any other options you may want.

Of course if you find a car with a motor/exhaust that work, well, you can save a substantial amount of money.

Hope that gives you some kind of an idea of what you're looking at and welcome!

Sean

edit:

Just thought I'd add that 10 grand to bring a basket case up to nice driver with middle of the road paint/interior seems realistic to me, at least based on my personal experience. Add or subtract depending on how much you wanna spend or can do yourself on the paint/interior.

Interior is actually really cheap materials wise, you could easily spend under $400 on all the materials you need from carpet to headliner, panels, seats, foam, etc. A walking foot machine to sew it up you can get for between $300-600 on the low end, and just re-sell it when you're done.

For paint/body, I'm spending around $200 on sandpaper/body tools/sanding blocks/etc, and in the $500 range on 2 stage kirker paint/primer/clear and constructing a backyard paint booth.

 

Wow Sean! That was really impressive. Thanks for all that. There was some good stuff that I hadn't collected or learned while I have been working on my Vicky.
Michael

 

IMHO trusting an alignment shop to do it right on an old car is like trusting a wh*re. Not advisable. HAHAHA Nice

great post I'm going to shoeboxford.com right now to order my green book

 

The EMS floor kit is decent, If your car is really cheesed like mine was/is you will need more than what they have, and need some customization, and with their kits they don't really tell you right up front but if your rear fenders are damaged fix those first before you put in your inner rockers, I did it wrong the first time and started with the floor first then had to cut the entire floor out because it didn't line up with my new rocker panel.


Great post

 

I want to make the rear side windows of my sedan into single piece fixed windows (more like a coupe) to get rid of the rear wind wing for aesthetic reasons....Does anyone know of a nice rubber molding to fit the one piece glass between the garnish moulding and the body without resorting to a glue in window? I realize I might be able to combine two coupe rubbers, but would prefer to use a single piece...

 

A tip for those of you who flipped the spindles..Sprrdwaymotors.com has tie rod drops that are made for '48-64' ford trucks. but will work for shoeboxes too! They drop the tierod ends 2" or so so ypou don't have to bend the stock steering arms... sparky

 

I just put in a Maverick rear end and it's so simple it almost made me feel bad. It bolted right in. I loosen the rear springs and then tighten them back in once it was bolted to the rear end. The U-joint to use was for a stock 1974-6 ford maverick v8 302 PDQ 1-4635. I got it from Autozone after leaving NAPA pissed off because they couldn't look up the sizes of the stock 50 rear u joint and the stock rear u joint for a 74-6 maverick. They use to be the place to go when they were a mom and pop's store but napa bought them out and closed the machine shop in the back. Now they can't look crap up. Anyone that can even half turn a wrench can do this project. I didn't even drop the rear leafs I did have to drop the exhaust down only because I was doing it by myself and had to move it over both the springs and leaf spring at the same time. Total time to do everything minus the main brake line 2hr 38minutes including degeasing the new onw and refilling with gear oil. I broke the line trying to unhook it because it was so rusty. I would rate it as easy as swapping out a set of disk brakes.

 

A quick update for those that have this bookmarked.

When doing the Ford 8"/Maverick swap, the u-joint you want is in fact the 210-2173. This will allow you to connect the stock driveshaft to the Maverick yoke. (just finished installing the driveshaft, so I know this info is correct).

The interchange info for this PN:

GMB: 210-2173
Neapco: 1-2173
Precision: 498
Spicer: 5-2173

If the part store asks, this is the rear u-joint for a 67 AMC American with the 3.3L 6 and an automatic (FYI, the front u-joint from the AMC works for the front shoebox u-joint too). This also fits some mid sixties small ford cars with six cylinders.

 

Thanks for takin the time, I continue to fins this quite useful

 

I just found this listing in the Dennis Carpenter catalog:

0A-7030248-PR Quarter Window Seals for
Stationary Quarter Windows
on 2 dr. Sedan
49-51 50.00 pr.

I think this is what you are looking for.

 

Monroe 5821 do i Have to cut the tabs on the shock for the bolts?
Because it isnt wide enough to bolt up to factory holes.
Would you know the OEM shock part#

 

About the sanderson headers...I have a set of the cc2 and a few others that were trying to make work for my 50 shoebox. We are still having issues with clearence on the driver's side "steering box" ?????

 

Just bought a shoebox. This is awesome! Thanks.

 

Thanks for this thread. It is great. I think you may have just saved me from making a big mistake. I really need to finish one project before I start another! lol

Thanks again.

 

yes, you need to trim the tabs, no big deal just use a washer when you install these.
these are shorter shocks and work great for a lowered front end, the stock shocks are too long and bottom out when lowered.

 

here is a list I have of parts I used to install a 305 chevy small block motor and 350 auto transmission into my 1950 Ford coupe.
I made this list to keep a record of what I used that 'WORKED" in my car so when the time comes to make repairs or if I sell the car one day the next owner will know what parts were used and how to replace them.

sorry its not in order and its not complete but, I hope the info helps.
David

THERMOSTAT MILODON, 180 DEGREE 16401
STEERING ARMS FATMAN DROPPED ARMS
PVC VALVE STANDARD V178
ALTERNATOR 100 AMP ONE WIRE GM TYPE
STARTER HIGH TORQUE AFTERMARKET
SHIFTER "LOKAR" 23" NOSTALGIA ATS63500AN
GAS PEDEL SPOON-HOT ROD TYPE
FUEL PUMP "HOLLY" 12V. ELECT 7PSI. 97GPH 12-801-1
BRAKES STOCK 1950 FORD
RADIATOR "WIZARD COOLING" 2-UN255
CARB EDELBROCK 650 CFM, ELEC CHOKE 1406-2467
DIST HEI, '74-78 CHEVY
TRANY STOCK 350 CHEVY AUTO
MOTOR STOCK 1985 305 CHEVY
MOTOR MOUNTS JAMCO
TRANS MOUNT JAMCO
KICK DOWN CABLE LOKAR KD-2350HT
TRANS DIP STICK LOKAR FLEX TD3350400FM
WATER INLET 4 SEASONS 84908
THROTTLE CABLE "JEN E" DISTRIBUTING HR 9730-XL
THROTTLE SPRING LOKAR SPK-400
THROTTLE BRACKET LOKAR SPK-400
GAS TANK "TANKS", STOCK TYPE 51F
SENDING UNIT AFTERMARKET, MODIFIED
RAD HOSE UPPER "GATES" GCR, MODIFIED 21794
RAD HOSE LOWER "GATES" GCR, MODIFIED 20957
FAN STOCK 1971 NOVA
HEADLIGHT SWITCH CLASSIC INDUSTRIES 1960's GM TYPE G6671
DIMMER SWITCH CLASSIC INDUSTRIES GM TYPE UD5414
DRIVE SHAFT GENERAL DRIVESHAFT
OIL PAN 1964 V8 NOVA-JAMCO OPKSBC
WIRING EZ WIRING 21 CIRCUIT 21 CRCT COLOR
BATTERY CABLE TAYLOR 48010
EXHAUST WOODMAN MUFFLER 2" PIPE
INTAKE MANIFOLD EDELBROCK PERFORMER EDL-2101
EXHAUST MANIFOLDS STOCK 1984 CAMERO-FIREBIRD
FRONT COIL SPRINGS STOCK 1980 FORD AEROSTAR MOOG CC850
FRONT SHOCKS MONROE 5821
REAR SHOCKS MONROE 31000
CARB INSULATOR EDELBROCK EDL9266
MUFFLERS WOODMAN MUFFLER- FLOWMASTER
UPRIGHTS FATMAN DROPPED UPRIGHTS

 

they say any 100 series volvo works 140/160--try to find one --if you do, be prepaired to pay big bucks--I have heard $500/$600 but I havent found one

 

What does the 5150 mean? Are you an Eddie Van Halen fan?

 

no.


Section 5150 is a section of the California Welfare and Institutions Code which allows a qualified officer to involuntarily confine a person deemed to have a mental disorder that makes them a danger to him or her self, and/or others.

this code seems to fit me well and I deemed it appropriate considering the short time frame I gave my self to get my shoebox running.

 

I am going to use the Fatman drop spindles, they came with he car in a box when I bought it.
What Springs and Shocks are typically used on the front?
thanks

 

The u-pull it yards in our area charge the same for a given part no matter the make. A caddy set costs same as a kia. Don't remember what I paid for my volvo box but it was under $50- years ago. I also grabbed the remote tank and hoses. They're incredibly long but will get you by till you get some made. I cut the ones on the donor car and was shocked on the volvo price. Had some made by a hydraulic shop quite reasonably in a manner of minutes. You usually won't find the power boxes on sedans seems that they were mostly used on wagons.

I had absolutely no problems with the Fatman kit, every bit of hardware and fit was spot on perfect. Ask for their shoebox build sheet. Quite helpful.

Did have a slight interference issue with their cross steer set-up, probably caused by my homemade engine mounts. Zerk fitting would rubbed right against oilpan. Temporary fix was to replace it with a plug. Final fix was to buy a cheap oil pan from Summit and build a center sump pan. Basiclly just cut the sump off and noved it forward and modified the oil pickup extending it forward using 1/2" standard copper fittings (plumbing) brazed on. Haven't failed yet.

Wish this link was around when I was building my 51.

Wasn't able to open the hood latch fix link. Is it gone? or is the link wrong?

 

All this just for me ,can't believe it ,I'm ready to get thru my 51 ...little done yet ,but wait for the results...BIG THANKS


sign: Don

 

omg! this post should be in the Preface of the Green Bible. I coulda used this a Ton of times. Thank you for taking the time to put this all in detail. I am currently problematic trying to get headers to tuck down against my 327 sb in my shoebox.

you used - "MANIFOLDS STOCK 1984 CAMERO-FIREBIRD" ?

 

I know it sucks when dudes bump old threads, but this just made me question a few things I was planning and brought a few more to my attention, which will lead to some more reading up. This is a great read for a Shoebox n00b. I just printed it out so I can highlight parts. Thanks a lot, Sean!

 

sorry it took me 2 years to respond, and you probably figured it out by now , but yes. I used stock 1984'ish camero - firebird manifolds.

 

Does anyone have a copy of that Mustang Gas Tank install that Johnny1290 has linked posted in this thread? The link doesnt seem to be working and I cant seem to find that article anywhere.

****yes I used the search option smart asses!!!

 

Big A,
Man I never knew so much info is available! Been reading all night and still not finished, but I've gotten some great ideas from Johnny1290! I've been bookmarking lots of websites too. Lots out there for us shoeboxer's. I'm glad I bought it and hope to hell I can git 'er done. It's all new to me! A big thank you!

 

Anyone???

 

Maybe not the one you're looking for, but here's mine. 1x1 between the frame rails, and angle to make a frame for the tank to sit in. You can buy a new tank and parts from Tanks Inc.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=623795

http://www.tanksinc.com/