Trying to get a 1961 Lincoln Continental 430 fired up after a complete rebuild and I am running into problems... The engine started for about 30 seconds yesterday, its first time turning over in about 7 years. The engine has been rebuilt, I have a new starter, new positive battery cable, new starter cable. The engine turned over very slow and I noticed a puff of smoke (it smelled electrical) I had been trying to start the car for about 5-8 minutes. It started and ran for the above stated approximately 30 seconds. It shut of and would not fire up again. Tried to start the car for an additional 2-3 minutes and then the starter stopped spinning. It had melted the end of the starter cable (this was a modified negative battery cable) and it had come loose. Today I replaced the starter cable with a new real starter cable and it does nothing but make a buzzing sound and the positive battery cable is very hot this is after only trying to start the car twice. Does this point to a starter solenoid? Are there other electrical points that could be causing this failure? Any tips, tricks, pointers? Any help is appreciated, this is becoming very frustrating!
i aggree the starter is probabbly junk but try to jump the solenoid just turn the key to start and use a screwdriver from the S terminal on the solenoid to the starter cable lug and see if it will start
I wondered this too.. It melted at the fuse box not at the starter though, does that make a difference? I'll pull the starter tomorrow and check it out. Thanks guys.
If you melted at the fuse box, I'd say you have a ground problem, because your car is "hunting" for a ground in the wrong places. It's a little complicated to explain here, but you should clean/replace/tighten your negative battery cable and see if that makes a difference.
I've seen one car, a '64 Caddy with issues, that melted the hot lead up to the fuse box, not an easy fix in that instance. Look at all your engine to body grounds, one or more may have been left off. Look for anything hot that may have gone to ground. Its a good possibility that the solenoid is fried, I'd replace that. Bob
Sounds like the starter, is the rebuilt engine the one that came out of the car ? There are 2 different flywheels avaiable for that motor with different tooth counts You also need a rubber seal that works as a shim to properly align the starter
This is the stock engine that came out of the car. I will try the stock starter and see if it makes a difference. I have a feeling that the grounding system is not correct either. When I took the engine out there were no leads to the chassis. Should I run one from a starter bolt to the frame and one from the front of the block where the negative battery terminal connects?
There should be a ground strap on the engine to the inner fender I helped my Dad put the 430 back into his 62 Lincoln last year and we had issues, with the starter, the bendix would hang up because of the shim/seal that was required was missing and the starter stayed engaged. Once we shimmed the starter everything was good Your solenoid might be toast as well, for the $20 they're worth you might as well grab one
Match up the 2 starters side by side to make sure they're the same unit. Engines usually have a ground on the back (off the intake manifold) that goes to the firewall, look for a braided strap with lugs hanging somewhere. If you have the shop manual for the car, it should show where other grounds might be. Add some temporary ones just to get your problem sorted out. It could very well be that there are no other engine-to-chassis grounds. Another thing I thought of, look for any pinched power wires that may have been snagged when installing the engine. That could explain your fuse panel that got lit up. Bob
You don't have to run it directly to the starter bolts, but your negative battery cable should bolt directly to the engine block (as close as possible to the battery) with a clean and tight connection. From the block you can run another wire back to the frame, etc. The starter is by far the highest current draw so the engine block needs the biggest & best ground. You also need to inspect and possibly replace the melted wires.
Good advice and the melted wire thing needs to be looked at closely. The conductors may be burnt through inside the insulation, just that you can't see it. Hold each end if possible and give 'em a tug. Bob
The negative battery cable is tied into one of the water pump bolts which was the stock position. But all the other grounds haven't been hooked up.
If you cranked for 5-8 minutes without giving the starter time to cool every minute or two the starter may be fried and maybe some of the wires supplying it with current. Other stuff could be the alternator/volt regulator is not wired correct. Grounds not being in place as others pointed out can fry parts/wires. What I do on a fresh build - Power up the electrical and make sure nothing smokes and fuses don't blow. Turn power off. Find TDC using your thumb on #1 plug hole using a remote starter switch. Then spin the crank with a socket till the engine is at about 10 before or what ever the initial timing should be set to from the spec. Pop the distributor cap and verify the rotor is pointing at the #1 plug wire terminal or real close. If not fix it then put the cap back on. Pour 1/2 oz fuel in the carb and reinstall air cleaner. Power up electrical and crank for no more than 30 seconds. If you don't get at least a few seconds of the engine coming to life check timing and ignition power.
Okay, sorry for the confusion. I did not crank the engine continuously for 5-8 minutes. I did it in bursts of about 10 seconds. The mechanical fuel pump wasn't bringing the gas up the over 18ft of the fuel line (started with a clean empty tank and empty lines). Used my vacuum pump to get the gas to the fuel pump. Sprayed some starter fluid in the carb and it ran for a couple seconds. I continued this multiple times figuring the bowls would have to fill up. Then the car fired up and ran for about 30 seconds it started to stutter I feathered the gas and it died. After that is when I noticed the electrical smoke. Since this was a negative battery cable being used as a starter cable connected at the fuse box it looks to have arced to the firewall destroying the end. All other cables outwardly appear to be okay. Ill know more tonight when I get to take a look. Thanks for all the replys and help!! Things I know I have wrong: There are no grounds to the chassis The starter does not have a shim
The last thing I would do is shim the starter... which if this is the 3-bolt Ford type that go to the bellhousing, it won't take a shim. Shimming a starter is what people who know jack-shit about starters always recommend. If you have a good connection at the ground cable to the engine and one from the engine to the body, you should be covered for a chassis ground. Bob
Do you really mean that you ran the big starter cable from the starter to the fuse box?? It's supposed to run from the starter to the solenoid.
I know what you were saying Bob, I was surprised at the difference it made on Dad's 62 Lincoln Here's the Ford part # we used C2AZ-6436-A that's a T-bird # but is the one we used, it's available at Mac's for $9.95
The starter solenoid is located in the bottom of the fuse box, it is not your standard inner fender location. The starter and positive battery cable connect to the bottom of the fuse box, to bolts extended out of the box.
Not saying that this is a false statement at all, but when I removed the original starter there was no rubber seal/shim. Then again there were no grounds running to the chassis either.
Had the starter tested at the local parts store and it is in "perfect working order" according to their test fixture. It is a Bosch starter that I purchased from rock auto. I compared it side by side with the original starter and they match in every dimension including tooth count and spacing. Will try installing the new solenoid tonight. It is going to be a pain to get to buried in the bottom of the fuse box.
Some things on the old Lincolns were really difficult to get to. Knowing the starter is good and matches the old one is a plus. Bob
I've never seen any extra parts that went with installing a Ford product starter, that's why I questioned it. I doubt you'll find a chassis ground either. I think that the solenoid and making sure your grounds and connections are clean will get you going. Bob
everything has to be grounded ,body,fame,engine, to one another, complete the circle. If not you have toast some where.
OK, I replaced the solenoid and added two grounds from engine to chassis. The engine now turns at an acceptable speed.
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