Ok, so it looks like we found our new ride, a semi-crusty ol' 49 Plymouth that we plan on picking up this weekend. The steering is loose as hell, plus it's manual. I normally wouldn't have a problem with manual steering, but this car will also be used frequently by my wife, who's not too keen on it. We plan on swapping in a 318 as well. So, I've done the searches, and I'm getting bits and pieces of ideas all over the place. I kinda want to hammer down a solid plan before I even touch a wrench to this thing. The advice ranges everywhere from 1. Rebuild the stock steering and tell my wife to get used to it (sorry, not an option), 2. Get the PS kit from Fatman (cost is a concern), 3. Swap in a R&P from a ___(insert junkyard vehicle of choice here), or 4. Hack off the front and weld in a stub from a ___(insert junkyard vehicle of choice here). I think I'm more inclined to go with choice 3 or 4. On the one hand, choice 3 could be quicker and easier, assuming all other suspension components are in decent order, which might be a stretch since it's been sitting for 10+ years. But, I'd still have to deal with getting some proper disc brakes on this thing. I know, there's a kit for it, but that's yet more expense. That's why stubbing it is sounding better and better to me, since I could get the steering, suspension, and brakes taken care of in one fell swoop. Again, advice is everywhere, from an S-10 to an early Dakota to a Monte Carlo stub. Hell, I've even heard from people who swapped in a stub from a Toyota or Mitsubishi pickup. A bit odd, but I'm not opposed to it. Then, there's always the Volare K-frame idea that keeps popping up, which would be the cheapest for me since I have a couple of 'em laying around anyway. I'm not afraid of cutting and welding, and I don't care if everything is the same brand, i.e.-Chevy brakes, Ford rack, Toyota steering pump, I could care less. A Plymouth body with a 318 is certainly Mopar enough for me, as long as it stops and steers decent and the parts are readily available at any parts store. I plan on using this for cross-country trips, so I can't break something in the middle of nowhere and not be able to get it at an Autozone. So, I'd like to hear from people that have done any of the above, how they did it, what problems arose, level of difficulty, and what to look for. Thanks in advance!
Disc brake swap from Scarebird. GM rear-steer rack. Relocate the upper front shock mounts to the frame. Install a 1" anti-sway bar from a Jeep Cherokee, with poly bushings. Done. I have three customers who daily-drive these, one has all that, but still has manual steering.
I have links to all these upgrades saved on my home PC I plan on doing all the upgrades including the cavilear R&P and Im not going to buy any "kits". Not that I have a problem with them, I just dont have the money! The whole 9yards parts included will be well under 400.00. I'll try to remember to put the links on here. All the stuff is right off here it just takes some time with the search function! Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app
I'm as big of a tight wad as they come and I just plain ole cant afford to buy these parts for my car so I have to make them. I'm using the links below to upgrade my front suspension this winter. I'm not sure if I'll get to the R&P or not but all this can be done for under $400.00 maybe closer to $300.00based on the prices I have found. That is assuming you are willing to make the brackets yourself! If not tack on another $300 or so. I'll also be buying the Aerostar springs. Heres a way to drop the front on the cheap! (same method that was already mentioned in this thread)http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685246Heres a shock relocation on the cheap!http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215548&highlight=shock+mounts+moparHeres a disc brake conversion on the cheap!http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=702258Heres the Cavilear R&P steering swap on the cheap!http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140107&highlight=rack+pinion Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app
The fatman kit uses a cavalier / grand am / etc. style rack and that is the route I went with my 48 Plymouth. Most of the kit was pretty basic stuff, the only oddball part that was supplied was the tierod adapters. I've seen some different solutions for that as well either here or on www.p15-d24.com if you're looking at making your own.
n847, that is the best set of links you could have given me! Thanks! And coryw, with the Fatman kit, does the steering still get in the way of the exhaust manifold like the stock steering, or do I end up with a bit more room to work with? I don't mind kicking the engine off to one side as with most smallblock swaps, but being able to use a pair of headers would be nice.
don-vee, my car already had a later model column in it so I can't really give you a good answer to that (went to the fatman kit because someone had cobbled in a different steering box and the installation was scary). We used a Butch's cool stuff SBM mopar mount (also to fix questionable work) and shorty headers and everything clears (but is tight).
Obviously I cant speak from experience yet but you shold have no issues fitting a set of shorty headers after the R&P conversion. I'm going to try and visit a local guy with the R&P conversion over my Christmas shut down from work and I will try to take some pics! Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app
DAMMIT!!! The guy with the 49 just called me and told me he sold the car!!! Seriously, these things were all over the place when I wasn't looking for one, but I guess that's the usual story. I swear, I can find a Model A, shoebox Ford, 55 Chevy, hell even a 56 T-Bird in my local and semi-local craigslists, all the supposedly hard-to-find rides, but trying to find a 49-52 Plymouth that's not a 4-door seems to be impossible! And yes, I looked on the classifieds here. But, the search continues, and the info will still help me out as soon as I find one.
Not knowing how much you have planned to spend, this may or may not be of interest to you, but an associate of mine has this for sale in Oregon, you would just have to add the freight, but, the money saved on body work should pay for the ride... http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/ctd/3462607764.html .
Thanks for the heads up, but I think the shipping would kill me. Plus, I'm pretty much 100% looking for a Plymouth. Thank you for the good try!
One more question, which the thread for the steering didn't seem to mention - what steering pump should I be looking for in the boneyard? I'd ideally like to find something nice and compact, as long as it'll work. I can have hoses made.
That was a thought. However, the vast majority of folks I talked to said it was far more work than doing all the upgrades, and many people who have done it said they wouldn't do it again. I have about 3 months to get this car together in time to drive out to Viva Las Vegas, and I think a full chassis swap might be way more of a bite than I'm able to swallow at this point. On another note, good fortune has shined my way, and I have no idea how I missed it before. After dropping my wife off to work this morning, I drove right past this. This was seriously right around the corner from her work. I stopped in to ask about it, and it looks like it'll be getting dropped in our driveway tomorrow! Looks like the PO had an idea on doing some smoothing over. The taillights and antenna are sunken, trim holes are smoothed over, hood seam welded, and doors shaved. Some of that will be reversed, though. I wouldn't mind some door handles, and I like the 50-52 taillights. Looks solid, and apparently, the stock 6 is a runner as well. Plus, it's got a title! Victory is mine!
Before you think about power steering... go over the stock front end, make sure everything is working correctly, install a new set of shocks and have a front end alignment done. I know several guys who have done this on old cars and it took away all desire for power steering. The original steering is very easy, old ladies and grannies used to drive them when they are new. Don't go over wide on the tires and if you use radials pump them up to 32 PSI.
I planned on refreshing the entire front end first, then doing the shock relocation mod, and take it from there. Brakes are also high up on the list, since the stock ones, even when rebuilt, are notorious crap.
Actually the stock brakes work well for drums when properly rebuilt and adjusted. But they are still drums. There really isn't any better drum brake system out there of that era. Disk is a worthwhile upgrade for modern day driving.
The brakes on Plymouths, as on all Chrysler built cars, were state of the art for their time. If rebuilt and adjusted properly, which they seldom are, they are plenty good enough for normal driving with the original engine. If you put in a V8, or drive a lot in gruesome interstate type traffic, discs are recommended. But for normal in town and secondary hiways the stock setup is fine.
Got a question for all of you who have done the R&P conversion. I have checked out all the threads on a few forums, and I'm still a bit confused. Some folks use the 1st gen Cavalier rack (tie rods bolted to center) while some use the 2nd gen (tie rods coming out the sides) so, which one should I use? Is one better than the other? I believe they mount differently, so which one does the Fatman kit use? Again, I have done the search, and people mention both versions with the Fatman kit. I'm actually thinking about fabbing up my own mounts. I'm kicking around the idea of taking a tape measure to the boneyard and starting from scratch - getting measurements from various rear-steer racks and taking it from there. Other than the Cavalier rack, has anyone here used any other racks that had good results? I hear the Saab racks are similar to the Cavalier ones. I'm also concerned about the loss of turning radius I hear everyone talking about. I guess I could try to get my steering arms shortened, but I was hoping there was another rack that someone has worked in and may be a better alternative.
Some people are now fabricating their disc brake bracket differently to incorporate a leg on the lower forward side to allow them to mount the steering arms in the front hole of the spindle using the rear hole in the arm, thus shortening the arms geometry. This gets the lost steering angle back for the racks lack of travel. The front hole in the steering arm now bolts to the extension in the disc brake adapter.
Hmm, that sounds like a pretty excellent idea, and I damn well wish I knew about that 3 days ago, before I cut my disc brake brackets!
Tie rods in the center fits the steering geometry better. Makes it easier to get the car to steer smoothly with no bump steer. Notice how the lower control arm shafts are at an angle. If you draw imaginary lines through the shafts, if you can get the inner tie rod ends to fall on those lines you are golden.
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