i actually put a drop of blue Locktite on studs to prevent the nuts from working loose. is that a bad idea?
Wheel studs or bolts should be clean and dry, and torqued to the proper spec. No oil, grease, anti-seize, Locktite, etc.
If you want to use Anti-Sieze do this, mock up a lug bolt in vise with washers to the correct thickness of hub and wheel, torque to spec clean and dry, use a micrometer and measure bolt stretch. Use anti-seize and re-torque slowly in steps until you get the same stretch. That will be the correct torque to use with your anti-seize. Now everyone is happy, I think.... Just don't lose a wheel and wreck, which you probably won't, but you will be guilty of negligence (maybe)
I own 2-10 car haulers. With 1 million miles on both trucks, I lube the studs all the time with no ill effects. Never been shut down by D.O.T. Based out of Ca. to. Also lube all bolts when rebuilding engine including big diesel engines with no problems.
Here in the rust belt, if you don't put a little anti-sieze on the studs, you might have a real bitch of time getting the nuts off after a winter or two.
ive never had 'clean dry studs' on any car ive ever worked on. i always put a dab of grease or oil on them to keep them maintained. the only time ive experienced lug nuts loosening was with aluminum rims. good practice is to occasionaly retorque lug nuts...... ive only put neverseize on hubs, to keep the disks/rotors from getting stuck. i know nothing.
"a little dab will do ya" My pet peeve is trailer tires with no hubcaps. Never-sieze them babies or break studs later gettin em off on the side of the road with trailer trucks wizzing by at 85 mph, in the dark, with a driving rain .......
That reads well. I do the same here in desert- type country. Light coat of grease, never had a problem. Don't like air wrenches, tease mine up by hand, with fussy attention. This has been our practise for 60+ years on steel wheels. I don't know 'bout mag wheels/ alloys on race cars etc.
alot of this makes sence, but country travler makes a point, many engine manufactures tell you to lube head bolts before torque, if you lube them wouldnt you lose torque after what was just discussed on lug nuts?
They figured out the correct torque for lubed threads. Most people who smoke don't die from cancer, not the best evidence it's safe. There is a large safety margin on wheel fasteners and mis-torque or improper procedures will not always cause failures, do you feel lucky, go for it. PS Don't complain you can't keep the rotors from warping. For head bolts or similar fasteners read here: http://arp-bolts.com/pages/arpultratorque.shtml
Thanks, this is exaclty the type of discussion I hoped would get started... I always use a torque wrench or torque stick when in the shop but hate like hell being out in the sticks and not being able to (or destroying) the lug nuts and studs getting them off. I wonder, as someone mentioned earlier, how lubing lug nuts is different than lubing head bolts and con rod rods when torquing them? I would guess the wheel studs/lug nuts are exposed to much higher stresses than internal engine fasteners?? Keep the info. coming, this is interesting...
Don, I think the use of it simply requires a little common sense and an understanding of the relationship between torque, friction, and clamping force. In my opinion it's use allows smoother tightening, greater consistency, and even torque across all the lug nuts. There's been much research done on the subject and the torque compensation allowance for lubricated threads is well documented. Here's a good article: http://www.stlaroc.com/features/torqtips.html Bob
no lube! weld wheel states on their website in faq "Weld Racing does not recommend the use of lubricant when installing lug nuts".
Looks to me like the warning above referred to torquing lubed lug nuts WITH an airgun, not torquing them with a torque wrench. I never use an airgun, and I always use anti-sieze and a torque wrench. Cosmo
even though it may seem to make sense,especially in the rust belt,as stated earlier the d.o.t. inspectors will frown upon the use of anti seize
I've only been giving the studs a little wipe of never-seize or white lube for 40 years. On my cars and countless customer cars, never saw a problem as a result. I do recall seeing some sort of a white lube trace on the studs of some new cars that came in for service, this was factory applied. Bob
I have always used a little anti-sieze on my wheel studs, on every vehicle, including racecars, even the center lock wheels. You do have to be aware of the torque settings, but you should always be aware. Never had a wheel come off, or even loosen.
In torque formulas there is a friction coefficient that is sometimes used. On one formula I use, on dry bolts, it can range from .14 to .20, on lubed bolts the range is .12 to .18. So you see there is not a tremendous difference unless you're talking about crazy torque figures. Edit: Did a quick calculation for a 120KSI 1/4-20 bolt @ a .13 and .20 friction coefficient and came up with 62 and 95 in-lbs respectively. Bob
My memory is that ford wheels work ok on the rear, but don't center correctly on the front. Of course that is a memory from early to late '60s mopars.
"My local WalMart puts a something ( never looked close to see what it is, has a copper color ) ( family car ) on the studs, torques the nuts, drives the car around in a circle and torques them again." There you have it ! If Wally World does it, it must be right, after all, their "Techs" have about 15 minutes of training. What the hell do the Engineers at Ford, GM, Chrysler , etc. know? WTF ?
I used to work at a shop that regularly ( daily)replaced the wheel studs broken off by the next door tire shop that would always lube up the studs. Also I would constantly find distorted lug nuts.
I like using lite oil. Something like power lube. And torque, always touque. And re-torque. I have used 65 lbs./sq.in. on aluminium wheels and 1/2" studs for years. And knock-on-wood have never had a problem. Even on the drag cars I have had. Gene.
Id wager theres never been a DOT inspector that was a mechanic . Typical engineer type that live in a theoretical world / fantasy land. Its a certainty if he had dead wheel studs on the side of the road in the dark and snow on his truck it would never have dry rusty treads again.
if they are dirty or rusty use a wire brush and nothing else. if they are damaged replace them. if you apply lub it will effect torque specs and could lead to stretched studs,or wheel nuts backing off. you might get away with lub 99 times out of 100. but thats not good enough for me. most of the pro lub articles say its lubed to aid in removeing bolts. think about that a bit and id sooner use up more time removeing a stuck bolt than explaining to someone why my tire is stuck inside their suv in thier kids lap
For information only. Standard 1/2 Wheel Stud Dry Clean Steel or Zinc Plated 100 Ft Lbs Torque = 1,000 Pounds clamping force (Ford Spec) 125 Ft Lbs Torque = 1250 Pounds clamping force Lubricated 100 Ft Pounds Torque = 1250 Pounds clamping force 80 Ft Pounds Torque = 1000 Pounds Clamping force (desired clamping force) To calculate adjustment Dry Torque divided by (.2 x Thread Diameter inches) = Clamping Force Lubricated Torque = Clamping force x .16 X Thread diameter Or simply Lubricated Torque is 80Pct of Dry Torque Lubricated Clamping is 125 % of Dry
I like to use a little on washers on aluminum wheels.and on the newer conical lug nuts to minimize damage to wheel. but not on the threads.I did use to use it on my 4x4 trucks that spent alot of time in wet conditions.
Nice. You get more clamping with a little lube / anti-sieze AND you get some rust prevention, ta boot. Gary
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