I am building a 48 Dodge panel truck. The problem I have is where I welded on the rear fender flares. Originally they were bolted on. In order to clear the tires tucking up so far I had to trim the fender flares and weld them on. I took my time MIG welding every 5-6" and let it cool in between. It actually took me a few days to do it because I didn't want to warp the panel. Well it didn't work. I still ended up warping the panel and now I have the dreaded oil can affect. I have searched the site and can't find what I feel is the correct fix? Alot of the answers are to hammer and dolly the part that was welded. In my situation I can't do that because it was welded on a seam. I can get to it from the back if I need to. I am unclear as to whether I need to shrink or stretch the area? If you look in the picture the affected area is the part in metal above the flare. Where the metal ends and paint begins is where the inner fender welds to the outer body. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks, andrew..
It was tacked. What I meant was I tacked every 5-6", usually only putting 4-5 tacks around the entire perimeter at a time.
Any time you weld any thing especially a large panel like that you are gonna have some kind of warping..... can you post another picture with a red circle with the spot its "popping" at
definitly needs shrinking. when i mig weld sheet metal i have the gun in one hand and the air blower in the other. i weld about 1 inch then blow it cold with an air blower. cools off real fast. works good for me
You need to heat and shrink it. Heat a spot with a torch, lightly hammer and dolly the bulge down that you made with the heat, and shrink with a wet rag. There is an art to getting it just right and not shrinking too much. Or you can do what my old boss taught me to do when this happened. Drive it down with a ball peen hammer and level out with Bondo.
What he said^^^ No matter how slow you go there will always be shrink on and adjacent to a weld seam. That is why you should ideally butt weld body panels, and then hammer on-dolly (stretch) the seam. With the shrink in your seam area there is now 'too much metal' in the flat area above it. You would need to shrink it, and blend that shrink the further away you get. Pretty much your only option to shrink inboard in a panel like that is to use heat (unless you have an Eckold in the corner of your shop) That would be either torch shrinking or running a shrinking disc. The latter would be easier, but you could still end up chasing your tail. If it were mine I would cut out and do over with a butt weld joint. That would take some shaping on (and even adding metal to) your flares. It may seem overkill but I think you might end up with less total time in it than trying to fix it as is.
The mistake people make in these situations is they want to start working the panel, the panel didn't change. When you weld, the weld itself is what shrinks. In this case the weld at the edge shrank, and made the panel oil can. If you could hammer the weld, the weld would stretch, and then oil can in the panel would go away.
The worst spot is just to the rear of center. If I push that out from the inside it pops in about 5" in front of that.
x3 Give it a try. I did and it worked on my quater! The older steel is very forgiving even for a rookie like me. Looking at the pics it will be easy to shrink. Just take your time and make sure that rag is wet! Not just damp. Jay
Thanks for the help guys. Here are a few more pics. I tried to take a picture of the inside of the fender flare. The reason I couldn't/can't hammer where I welded is because it is a 90 degree flange where it use to bolt. In the picture 1 and 3 are even. As soon as i push in on 3, 2 and 4 pop out and so on. I have done the shrinking with the rag before, but not on such a large scale. Can it be done with a propane torch or do I need the real deal?
if you have a unispoter i have used them to get rid of a oil can just weld some studs on pull the can out and beat around the perimiter with a pick hammer.. till you cant push it back in.
X 2 Stretch the weld zone. Do not work the rest of the panel, it has not changed shape. the welds shrunk not the panel. Fritz
X 3 The weld area shrunk and has put tension on the panel. Why would you want to shrink more? It looks like you have access from the pictures.
Hey, Whoa killer All this talk of pick hammers, torch shrinks & random shrinks on a semi crowned panel would have you '' lightning struck, and camel fucked '' if ya ask me! If you start landing shrinks in the 1234 areas shone, you'll probably about double the area/s containing oil cans, as those shrinks pull metal from surrounding areas.......................is the washboard look the one you're after? PLEASE STRETCH THE WELDS BEFORE YOU SHRINK ANYTHING Yes, a propane torch can be used to heat welds, but an Oxy/Acet. torch would be easier to control the heat. " Don't ya think this outlaw business done got outa hand ? "
I definitely don't want to be camel fucked! I'm kind of understanding what the solution is, but I can't wrap my head around how to do it exactly? If it was a flat piece butt welded together I would understand. I'm just not grasping how I can stretch the weld that has been done in a seam that's not flat in the back..
It looks like you can put a dolly on the back side of the weld and strike the weld with a cross peen hammer. You can also place a dolly against the outside and strike inside with a hammer. You may need to get someone to help. Not going to be easy with MIG welds. One more reason I gas weld.
This is awesome, I never heard of camel fucked, very cool! Do what pimpn paint suggested or you'll have bigger problems than what you have now! Heck it might not be too late to start over, cut the flanges off and butt weld them in a way that the welds can be worked after welding; which if I were doing it, would be either gas or TIG welded.
Sometimes, if you are lucky, you can remove an oil can by heating the area with a heat gun then cooling it with dry ice.
Hey, Whenever you design a patch panel or, in your case, a wheelhouse flare that must be welded into another, you must design in access to dress the welds. This also goes for work done with squirtgun welds and putty! You may wanna look into making or buying a " T " dolly say, .750 o.d. This would fit well into the apex of the radius of your welds, and enable you to stretch them as necessary. As you work those welds each side of the center of the flare , the areas with the largest amounts of oil canning, I think you'll see the panel relax " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "
To help wrap your head around what occurs there, place a single sheet of paper on a table in front of you, with a long edge facing you. Now place your left index finger on the left corner, and right index finger on the right corner and slide your fingers toward each other. This will mimmick the line of weld shrinking, and the wave that forms in the piece of paper is exactly what will occur on sheet metal. The weld is shrinking, the "unaffected" panel adjacent to it is resisting this movement, and the result is a wave or buckle in the panel between these two areas. I would recommend to grind down the weld bead both front and back sides until it is just thicker than the panel thickness. Getting rid of some of the weld's bulk will make it more receptive to stretching. Then, using some 3/4" thick or thicker steel, cut a dolly (red outline below in picture) that matches the contour or the fender and quarter panel joint (blue line below in picture). Be sure to round the edges slightly to minimize adding any extra marks in the panel. Then use a slightly crowned body hammer on the inside, on-dolly planishing against your new dolly. This may require striking outward at the weld where it meets the quarter panel, and upward at the weld where it meets the fender. Hindsight and all that, even welding one tack at a time and letting it cool off for a week in between tacks it going to shrink the panel at the weld. You could weld this underwater, those tacks will still shrink. But by using the dolly to stretch each tack as you perform the weld will make the shrinking more manageable so the panel isn't so far out of whack when you're done. Here's a thread I posted recently that shows the "weld, planish, grind, repeat" process using mig welder. When done, it only required minimal work (about 5 minutes) to get the fender where you see it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=767491 .
hi, did you weld the other side yet? if not check that flair to see how it fits. you may find the center sticks out a little more then than say 6 or 7 in. off center. this may be part of your problem. you may be able to use a square to make sure it's the same both sides. the flair has a lot of shape and maybe holding it from moving.
Or you can do what my old boss taught me to do when this happened. Drive it down with a ball peen hammer and level out with Bondo. The old body shop cave and pave.
I save that trick for the very last resort, when all of the tricks have been tried twice, when the patient is weary, when the patience is thin, when the time has dwindled, when the tequila is gone - pride gets put away and that wack & pack is the only thing left. I'm that close on my hood, I even polished up my 2lb hammer. Just waiting to see how the 39977 does or doesn't do.
Theres a book out there called the Key to Metal Bumping I just got my hands on it am getting into it it seems to cover a lot of what you guys are talking about !
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