Can a sprint car type torsion bar suspension work on a street driven hot rod??

My dad built a 34 Ford Pickup in the early 60's that used Morris Minor torsion bars on the rear and Corvair front suspension.

 

Nice to see one of my sprint car heros Joey Saldana mentioned on here. From Lincoln, Ne. dirt tracks to Indy he was awesome. NOw his son JOey Jr. is tearing up tracks all over the nation now and is a winning driver as well. Saldana Racings products doing products for the race industry! ~sololobo~

 

It seems to me,, no one realizes Mopars from 1957 up into the 80s use torsion bar suspension .Bill aka Tnomoldw
''I wanna go where the lights are low where I can go'n spend my dough an dance with the dolly with the wooden leg''

 

Here is a pic of the car above after shackles were added to the torsion arm.
I think this is how I'm going to do mine

 

Speedwagen, the picture on post #34 will produce a bind condition as the rigid shackle prevents the arm from pivoting on the lateral axis during one wheel bump. This will place a twist on the bar and fatigue crack it eventually. The post on #27 where the torsion arm floats on the slider is a better design choice.

 

^ RE the Z link style car rear suspension, I've been considering using birdcages with weather proofed, sealed bearings on my next build, instead of the fixed units on the subject car. My dirt racing buds seem to think it will work and be reliable. If so, I could eliminate any of the extra shackles, sliding links, etc.. Ideas? Gary

 

By 'Z' link do you mean a single trailing upper link and a single lower leading link? Which would technically be a watts link.

 

Rootie,
I never thought of it that way, but I guess so. As you know, I'm no engineer but I've been told there were clear advantages either in "packaging" or handling by doing the Z instead of 4 bars (which is a folded Watt's link, eh? har har). I suppose that whether the leading bar is either up high or below the axle may matter also, but someone smarter than me can address that. Gary

 

Watts link is simply a generic discription of a geometric design that can be used in any configuration. Virtually all rear cross bar sprint cars use a 'modified' watts link set up. The reason it is called modified is that the upper link is longer than the torsion arm. This causes a roll steer effect as the axle will skew in body roll. Not a bad thing if you're turning left, sideways at a high rate of speed . For lefty-righty driving one would want a true watts geometry where the 2 links are the same length and equal distance from the axle center line. This will eliminate a roll steer effect and a good example of a true watts set up would be on the old Indy roadsters:

 

Good stuff Rootie, thanks for the input.

Here is a pic of what I have now, and the new narrowed rear that I need to redo for the torsion arm to have a pivot from a shackle.

 

Yup my buddy Scott has it on his 33 willys drives fine.

 

Speedwagen the setup you have now pictured will not improve with a shackle on the torsion arm. The rigid link mount upper radius rod controls the pinion angle and and a shackled torsion arm lower rolls the pinion angle severely during ride variations. On a race car the axle mount is free to rotate and retained with what is know as a bird cage. This birdcage pivots on the axle tube and maintains axle position with either a torque tube or torque arm used to control pinion angle. With what you have now, Just add a lower rear radius rod to match your upper rear radius rod, shackle the torsion arm and you're good to go. Make sure that the shackle is wide enough so the heim end bearing has sufficent room to rotate.

 

And every repair shop had broken torsion bars to use as pry bars. In the late sixties there were a couple of guys around here that tried to use them on dirt circle tracks. The right front would break and the car would roll over. Metallurgy has advanced so they stand up much better and there are more options available.

 

This might be stupid, but her goes;

If I would mount, torsion springs on a rod, I would ude a rearend thats already is set up for four link. Something with Danish laws, the makes 1000 times easy'ere when you dont weld on the axels.

Then I would replace the two top arms, we call them tourqe arms, with the arm from the torsion bar. If I keep the same relative angle to the lower arms, we call them swing arms.

Or is this the final proof that I'm a retard, or is this a good way to do it?

 

a spring is a spring leaf, coil,or torsion bar. with a 4 link I would have the torsion arm ride on a roller so that it could move freely when the axle moves over bumps or twist with body roll. If it was mine i would run a torque arm or tube birdcages and a modified watts, by changing the angle of the radius rod you can decrease or increase roll steer. as for placement of the bars by installing them at the ends of the chassis it lengthens the spring base which is like increasing the wheel base also bar height affects body roll.

 

I spoke to Michael Moal extensively regarding their Torsion bar suspension set up, and he confirmed that the ride is far superior to the 'normal' transverse leaf spring suspension.

I have purchased a Front suspension kit, slightly modified for my '34 chassis, and it fits perfectly.

I'm going with an 8inch and coil overs on the rear.....mainly due to cost (South African Rand = 8 / 1USD), but I will still have infinitely (almost) adjustable ride height and spring rate, as well as a better handling ride.

Bonus is a reduction in weight, with both front & rear leaf springs gone.

And, for my build, it moves the wheelbase forward by two inches.

Some pics.......

Regards

 

^ I'm pretty much sold on their frame, but I don't think I can finance a roller. Is there any mention or markings on the bars indicating their rating? Gary

 

The Moal torsion bar was 25in long, but I needed 1in longer for my stock '34 chassis, so I went with a 26in bar from Schroeder, via Speedway, which had the same specs:
Schroeder Hollow Torsion Bar 26” - # 95015326-800
I'm building my '34 5W with a Y-Block and T-5 'box, so with any engine/box combo of similar weight it should be OK......

 

the rating depends on arm length, bar length, bar dia. and if it's hollow or solid. '49Merc's bars are hollow 26"x .800 in dia the length of the bar affects the rate and ride, a .800 x 28" or 32" would decrease as the bar gets longer. but if you increase the dia for a longer bar say a 32" x 1.120 might give you the same rate and give you a smoother ride as twist less for the same travel. All this is limited to space constraints and you use what fits.
think of it as you would a coil over the closer it mounted to the wheel the lighter the spring,the angle of the c/o decreases the rate at the wheel same as increasing the arm length it's just another spring.

 

any more pics of torsion bar set-ups

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1078&pictureid=136630


http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4415861/JACKIE_HOWERTON__INDY_SPEEDSTER.jpg

These are pics of Jackie Howertons car with torsion bar suspension.

 

Very slick!

 

Devin are they 7/8" bars in the frt?

 

Anyone checked out this:http://www.atrackroadster.com/

ATR uses torsion bar front ends-----

 

I am looking at a street rod that has sprint car torsion bar susp front and rear. The aluminum Torsion bar control arms ride/rub/support directly on the axle tubes. Is this a reasonable system? I can deal with periodic maintenence if required.
Regards,
FRank

 

Any thoughts anyone?

 

the ford explorer uses a front torsion bar setup. plymouth used them in the 60's-70's. I am trying to figure how to use them on my 1939 Ford coupe with a explorer rear end. leaf springs suck balls as far as I am concerned.

 

BTT.
For more info and ideas

 

Lots of cars ran torsion bar setups, Valiants, my old VW, even my OT SUV. Match the weight of the car to the bar and fine tune.

 

Two guys I know use VW bars in their builds


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