The original drum brake systems did have residual(s)-they were/are internal in the master cylinders up to the mid '70s. Fact, not opinion.
Well if that is the case you should read the whole thread because he used a master from a 67 to 72 c10. So they are internal already.
Tom, you are correct, the master he is using should have internal residuals. (Some rebuilt/new off-shore masters may not have the valves installed) If you re-read the whole thread, you'll find I never said to add residuals, only stated they were needed on older drum brakes.
The main purpose of drum brake residual valves is to prevent a vacuum forming and allowing air to enter past the wheel cylinder cups during fast brake release, by keeping a low fluid pressure checked in the system. They also help minimize pedal travel. Most/all stock vehicles with under floor masters had them located higher than the wheel cylinders. It's when the car is lowered that fluid drain back could be a problem, both with drums and modern discs.
The only reason I posted the Bendix master link was to provide an option that is readily available at most parts stores not to criticize the fine job you are doing with your Merc,I moderate the 1952-59 Ford social group and have helped a lot of our members with a dual master conversion for drum/drum cars and this master has been successfully used in the past,sorry you took offense to my post it was not meant to offend.
Just a quick question, I noticed in your pics the brake line to the front wheels is on the rear M.C. outlet, should it not be on the front out let? Thanks Larry
No, it is plumbed correctly, rear reservoir for the front brakes. It has the larger reservoir for the larger wheel cylinders which are in the front. The very early GM cars used front/front & rear/rear setups but it is always someone's opinion in which to do in which ports. In my case I am using the larger holding reservoir for the the fronts because of the wheel cylinder size. Newer disc/disc setup master cylinders are 50/50 split size, some disc/drum masters are in equal as well. Some people believe that front goes to front and rear to rear in any application but I have seen many setup where the rear is to the front on dual master swaps and even stock applications but it depends on the year and brake choice drum/drum, disc/drum, disc/disc. I have a really nice pedal in the car when applying the brakes. Especially after redesigning the brake switch routing on my setup. I also have replaced all of my wheel cylinders, shoes, hardware, lines, fittings, hoses, and components on the brake system from front to back which made for a very accurate bleeding of the system. I will post a newer pic tonight of the line routing. This redesign was due to getting a direct inline t-fitting that I originally couldn't get my hands on.
May be a dumb question, but did you need to fab up a 2nd set of lines when you made the switch? Did your original brake line setup run one line to a junction, or was it just 2 lines running out of one pot? About to make a similar switch on my 55 Mopar (along with front disk conversion). Thanks.
It originally was one line out of the single master to a "T" and one to the front that was y'ed off and one off the t to the rest which was y'ed off at the axle. I did run all new lines but you can recreate the existing lines in their stock locations but you will need to take into account the extra you will need for the dual master swap and/or proportion valve also and so on. I used a 25' coil of 3/16" line on the entire car for the system because I wanted one solid piece of line throughout my runs, no unions, etc and the least amount of sections of failure/leaking.
Gracias, my setup is probably similar (haven't traced the lines yet), and the previous owner said he replaced all the lines, but I like your reasoning on the solid lines.
KOTC. This is bang on. It the exact same way mine is set up except front disk. I've never had a problem.
Thanks again, I will look forward to seeing the pics. I just pulled the brake drums and luckily for me everything is new including the flex lines, now I am thinking the master cylinder might be O.K. but is just dry along with the rest of the brake lines but fuck it I still want the dual pot cylinder. Larry
I just ordered mounts from butch's cool stuff for the SBC but I didn't get any instructions on where to drill and bolt on. Would you happen to have any of that info? Trying to drop a 350 chevy small block and mm4 4-speed trans that came out of a 79 corvette
Its pretty easy, I tossed the paperwork but remember clear as day how it is explained. You have to have the engine/trans fully mated together in order to install the brackets. Mount the 4 hole trans plate to the factory trans mount location on the trans using 2 of the holes and then mounts the rubber mount to the other two holes and set the mount bolt into the trans crossmember, also mount the engine mounts complete to the engine, mount the tail of the trans first to the stock crossmember and them float the engine into location use a level to make sure engine/trans sit correctly. When its where you want it the flat side of the boxed L-brackets they give you will be sitting against the back of the engine crossmember and you will mark the 3 holes and then lift the engine out of the way to drill the holes to bolt it in or you can bolts it in and then weld a fat bead around the whole bracket which is how mine is done. You really only need to make sure you have plenty of clearance for your harmonic balancer. to get your belt on and off if needed.
I don't know if this is going to work. The mount kit is for a 700r4 AT. I've got 4 speed warner transmission...
This is copied and pasted directly from the website. You will not have any issues: "Bolts in any SB Chev V8 (283-305-327-350 with PG, 350TH, 3spd or 4spd. Other trannys with some modification). Good clearances with NO steering modifications. Completely Bolt-In with our trans crossmember extension adapter and rubber mounts."
Just finished my master cylinder swap, followed your instructions to a Tee and everything is right on, including its use with the original flattie. Thanks again for this THREAD you are a life saver. Larry
Let's see some pics! Post em up! I'm glad it was able to help someone on their ride. Hopefully many others in the future.
KOTC, By the way in your instructions you say you need longer fine thread bolts to bolt to the frame, I believe you meant shorter bolts as I found out. Larry
Any ideas on how this would work in a 50 Plymouth? Please post anything else you want! I inherited this car and want to make it a safe fun runner. It goes into storage next weekend but it's the first thing that happens in the spring when I get it out. I've read that mounting the new dual in front of the original will maintain my current linkage using a longer rod. Any ideas? Thanks. This is important stuff. The car inspired my daughters Halloween costume. Gotta be safe. Thanks again,
Just got my Fat Man Fab bracket & ordered the 67 c10 master & did some more looking around & saw the 67 mustang master might work better. Had to order both & both are around $45. The 67 mustang master fit perfect no modifications to it at all. With my bracket from Fat Man there is instructions that i didnt look at tell today & it says to use the 67-73 mustang master depending on if you have drum/drum or disc/drum. anyways just wanted to pass this info on. pic of both masters, mustang master is the small one.
yeah, like i said...i went with the c-10 master due to the fact that not a single store had the recommended mustang master in stock...if youre master takes a dump on you on the road every store had more than one of the c-10 masters on the shelf. maybe your area might have it in stock, every one of the big 3 stores in my area were special order only.
Just trying to add some more info on the upgrade for the next guy. In my area the 2 stores i went to i had to order from both. I appreciate your thread, with out it i wouldn't have found out about this dual master swap. Thx & nice work on your Merc looks good!
Not sure if anyone needs this info, but I found the Master cylinder adapter bracket in the Fatman Catalouge - Pg 18 I just ordered one.
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