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French Flathead Internals question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mattrat31, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Alright guys,,, I know it's not the traditional engine but, I'm having crack problems with mine and am just about to the point of buying a french block.

    I currently have a 1952 ford flathead and was wondering if the intenals of that engine would directly fall into the french blocks. I had seen that so cal drills and taps the front to accept this same year truck water pumps (which I am using) so we are good there.

    Also, I am using a 1939 ford three speed tranny and was wondering if there was going to be any issues when hooking it up since the 52 engine has a bolt on bell housing and the frenchy has half of it already on the engine.

    ^^^ Would somebody be able to explain this a little bit more for me. Thanks and have a great weekend.
     
  2. forty1fordpickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 298

    forty1fordpickup
    Member

  3. ventilo
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 251

    ventilo
    Member

    It depends on which "French Flathead" you plan to use. There is one with a rear sump oil pan (off the SIMCA Cargo) and then there is the 4" stroke engine with a front sump for the SUMB 4x4. This means you might need to change the oil pump and swap the oil pan (an 8BA sheet metal pan fits with slight modifications to accept the larger main caps).
    Be aware that some of the French blocks (not all of them) have a bulky and ugly boss for the governor at the rear, which can cause clearance issues to your bulkhead. It can be shaved-off, but that would require to strip the block completely.

    The alloy oil pan is quite thick. In my German '37 Ford it just clears the front x-member.

    You also need to swap the intake, the French engines come with an useless Zenith NDIX off-road carb, the intake won't accept any other common carb.
    You can swap the distributor front cover to accept an 8BA-style dizzy (French dizzies have a slightly different mounting). I guess you can also use helmet or crab style dizzies if you swap the cam as well. I'm running a GM dizzy adapted by Bubba for my French Flathead.

    So in essence you can swap the engine, but it needs some work. Well worth the effort, these are probably the best flathead blocks around (and the cheapest ones here in Europe...).
     
  4. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    I'm just in the middle of doing this and I am using a Merc 4 inch crank with 8ba rods and Egge pistons, Isky cam, adjustaable lifters and all the other standard FH internals and covering the bottom with a 48 Ford pan. Using a flywheel from FH Jack with a 10 inch clutch and my 5 speed S10 trans conversion. On the front I'm using one of my CNC'd 409 waterpump kits with my machined timing cover and a converted Chevy distributor from GMC Bubba. On top I'm going to use a blower from Road Runner Eng with a 4 barrel. I had a local machine shop take the governer bump off the back, plugged the extra holes and filled the depression and smoothed up the back with original JB weld. Looks good to me. Tell me where I'm going wrong??? Gary at Cornhusker
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013

  5. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Thanks guys, so far my 52 ford 8rt engine has a bubba distributor, and a thickstun intake, so that should all transfer over from what you guys are saying. I am also looking at the san francisco french block because it is sold with that rear boss already machined off.
     
  6. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    thank you forty1fordpickup,,, that is a great link
     
  7. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Is the valvetrain on these the same as the 49-53 ford flatheads or what do the french flatties use?
     
  8. swissmike
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 1,297

    swissmike
    Member

    Complete ford internals and accessories and transmissions can be used. I started with a French block and used everything else I already had.
     
  9. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Thanks swiss mike.
     
  10. cactusgarage
    Joined: Jan 4, 2013
    Posts: 2

    cactusgarage
    Member
    from france

    hello
    're looking for one v8 French
     
  11. mattrat31
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 117

    mattrat31
    Member

    Mainly just as a plan B but wanted to get some info on them basically just in case.
     
  12. DvlDg29
    Joined: Jul 1, 2012
    Posts: 46

    DvlDg29
    Member
    from NJ

    Not to high jack the thread, but Krylon32 may have answered a similar question I had regarding using a merc 4" in my 8ba. As I understand from your comment, the standard 8ba rods can be used with no further modifications with said 4" crank? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

     
  13. swissmike
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 1,297

    swissmike
    Member

    Yes, 8BA rods are used with 4" Merc crank. The 1/4" additional stroke is compensated by the piston pin position of the Merc only pistons.
     
  14. ventilo
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 251

    ventilo
    Member

    yeah - and that's quite the opposite on the SIMCA French flatheads. They use different length rods but the same pistons for both strokes. So be aware when mixing American and French components.
     
  15. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 360

    OHV DeLuxe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Norway

    The valve stem is shorter if i remember correctly and the lifter is taller. Be aware though that the lifters in french engines have been known to break like glass and destroy cam and bore. Two of my friends have experienced this and bought complete 8BA valves and lifters to replace the scary and broken french stuff.
    The American internals is something i would use and is field proven through 80 years of hard work.
     
  16. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    For DvlDog, it CAN get weirder: Normal 4" procedure is just to use Merc pistons with all other parts being any combo of Ford 1939-53 239 rods. There exist (Who has them??) FRENCH nos rods that are short so that their 255's used Fod pistons, and of course many diehard experimenters have redomed head quench area or shaved piston tops (on thick forged pistons) to use all Ford stuff with a 4" crank...
     
  17. DvlDg29
    Joined: Jul 1, 2012
    Posts: 46

    DvlDg29
    Member
    from NJ

    Thanks Bruce. As always your input is invaluable!
     
  18. I started with a French block and main caps - 4" crank, 8BA rods, 4" pistons, did not machine off the back governor area - just made block-off plates. I use an 8BA cam and valve train, top mount distributor, 8BA heads, 59 AB pan (I weld up the breather area and cut a groove in the block and pan to allow oil coming down into that area to flow back into the pan - if you don't, you will have a mess!), 8BA oil pump, 8BA intake, Speedway truck pumps all in my 40 coupe. Nice, heavy block with plenty of room for future boring!
     
  19. Is there room for the back govenor in a 32 Ford og should i get it removed?
    Lars
     
  20. ventilo
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 251

    ventilo
    Member

    The governor itself needs to be removed. If you mean the boss for the governor, I'd say it depends.
    I took some measurements in the past.

    [​IMG]

    These are centimetres ;)
     
  21. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Forty One,....Thanks for the FF info. I'm thinking of building one for my 40, and they seem to be a great item. Thanks Again....

    4TTRUK
     
  22. I did mean the boss and thanks.
    Lars
     
  23. flatty_
    Joined: Oct 12, 2012
    Posts: 41

    flatty_
    Member
    from TX

    i need to do same right now..do you have any pictures of that job done?

    just found it, so to anybody having the same question:
    #69 in http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=522707&page=4
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  24. I also have one of these blocks, and am quite confused about all the holes around where the govenor etc.. goes. Can anyone advise what is the simplest way to plumb in an external oil filter? Which holes do I need to use, and can I just block off the two large openings?

    This block is to replace one which came with my vehicle (1942, CMP) that the previous seller dismantled.....then left sitting out in the weather for a number of years! A great call on his part!!

    With my original engine worth the equivelent its weight in scrap, I started sourcing all new components to ultimately make a 'new' engine. Parts including: 4" Eagle crank, 4" Egge dome top 4 ring pistons, set of FF rods, new short oil pump and longer oil intake tube, new cam, NOS early style mushroom valves with new springs and lifters. Wasn't sure whether the rebuilder would recommend solid or adjustable lifters, so I have a set of each ready. Swapped the 2 Barrel carb for 4 barrel Holley. Running crab dizzy, with electronic ignition. Found local supplier of aluminium 2 pulley water pumps.

    Finding this block was a real stroke of luck. I stumbled across it by accident. There aren't many of these blocks in Australia. All those nice new parts to make an engine that will then go into a vehicle over 3.5 ton.

    20130823_213646.jpg attachment-4.jpeg $(KGrHqJHJB!FGnKB5Fr,BRzki3N0,w~~60_57.jpeg attachment-32.jpeg
     

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