Today I started the disassembly of my flathead. I think that it is a '52 or '53 because it has the EAB heads on it but I know that these motors could have been piecemeal. I started with the driver side valves. I was able to get everything out but the horseshoe clip (and therefore the valve guides). The valve guides look like they are locked in pretty good. What is the best way to get the clips out and the guides to loosen up? I've attached some pics too so that I could also get some advise on the condition of the valves. Thanks for the advice. Semper Fi
Horseshoe clips should just pull out. Use something with a Hook at the end and pull them out. Soak the Valve Guides with 50/50 mix of ATF/Accetone mix overnight, or two, they should then be free enough to lever up through the Valve opening.
The clips will come out easier if you can drive the guides down toward the lifters a little. The clips seat up in a shallow recess and probably wont come straight out of the groove in the guide in their current position. I wouldn't worry about hurting the guides, they look like they probably have served their purpose at this stage. At the machine shop where I worked, new valves, guides, springs, and clips were to be expected when doing a valve job on these engines. In your first picture, it looks like you may need an exhaust seat insert. It may clean up, but doesn't look promising. In the second pic, the intake seat looks "iffy" and is that a crack coming out of the exhaust seat? The glare makes it hard to tell. The seats look pretty good in the last 2 pics! Getting back to the guides, it might just be easier to drive them out toward the lifter bores. If I remember correctly, there is enough space there. Just try not to ding the lifter bores when the guides release.
There are a number of ways to get stuck guides out. One method to loosen them up is to take a 5/16" by 1" hex head bolt and drop it in to the stem opening, then use a blunt punch in an air chisel and hit the punch to the hex bolt head in 15 second bursts. This shocks the guide and helps release the rust bond.
The guides get carbonized and rusted into place and the rubber seals get petrified into a solid glue. Spray the guides with penetrating oil and let soak. Find a socket that fits the guide and hammer the guide down, gently as possible. Pull the clips. Work the guides in an up-and-down fashion until they loosen up.
With valve out, no problem. Just knock the guides down. The clips will fall out ready to reuse. The sticking is baked-on rubber ring on intakes and carbon throughout. Keep the violence axially true, keep on tapping. I think I lost a PM from you...you are real close to me I think and I can help out. You are already past the need for special tools...this is just a straightforward excercise in applying foreign policy hard enough to get results, exactly what you devil dogs are trained for! Let me know if I can help out. I'm in Morris county.
Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me! Fun too, this is my first complete tear down. 54nomore, I know what you mean about those seats in that first pic. It is a newer motor so it doesn't have the hardened seats. I plan on having the machinist put some in. I'm also hoping that a good relieving will help too. Bruce, you're right, a little violence, when appropriately applied, goes a long way I will probably take you up on that offer of help soon. Especially once I get a little deeper into the motor. Can I leave the motor apart now that I'm digging into it, or should I dress it back up each day? Don't want to cause more of a rust problem. I'll post the progress, going to do the other side tonight and try and soak the guides in the next couple of days. Then try and knock the guides back into the valley.
Just leave it a bit greasy til you are ready to start cleaning for real. If bare metal, oil for posterity or just squirt with WD40 for easy cleanup and evap if you will work on it in a couple of days
What all the other folks said !! You can easily find all new valve gear from Speedway, and Egge. The O-Rings go only on the intake guides. Don't rush ..... 4TTRUK
Bruce was right. It is amazing what a little well placed violence can do. I sprayed some WD40 on the valve guides I had exposed yesterday and let it sit while I worked on the valves on the other side. Went back with a hammer and a deep well socket, 2 shots or so and the horseshoe came right out. 5 or so more shots and the guide popped right out the bottom So one side is done. The other will be done tomorrow. Any suggestions on what should be my next step. I figure that the timing cover, crank pulley and water pumps need to come off next.
I would rethink the relieving. What do you want to accomplish with it? From what I have read, relieving does not help flow but will decrease compression ratio. Something that was done in the past but not of any value that I have seen. Neal
I replaced a valve and there is a special tool made called a valve guide removal tool..$33 from Speedway Think about joining your local Early Ford V8 Club...most of the folks are helpful and full of V8 tips that work.
Have those old guides bronze-lined and never look back, providing they're in decent condition, not rusted too badly! We machine them at the same time to use the new "Viton" valve stem seals also! See the photos below. You will never have another "hung" valve from long periods of sitting. Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. We've lined hundreds of those original guides and have not had a single follow-up issue! Use some decent stainless valves.
Neal, to be honest I was thinking about relieving the block because that is what I was told by someone else. I'm still new to the flathead world and relying heavily on the information I can gather from those with more knowledge than me. I'll do some more reading on this and give it a second look. Thanks for the input.
GOSFAST, I think most of my guides are pretty beat up. Not sure if they would be candidates for this.
Gosfast, which type of liners do you prefer, the spiral ones or the split sleeve kind? Goodson stuff? This stuff seems like an excellent idea on uits own, and and even better idea now that it is getting hard to find new Ford guides. The thought of guides from China is...scary.
Hi Bruce, the liners of choice are the K-line series, non-spiraled, and split. The part number is KL-1958AN. We purchase these in bulk boxes of a hundred. The entire installation can be done in a decent drill press then finished with an air-hammer and the correct ball-broaches. There is absolutely no "reaming" involved with the exception of the initial installation of the liner itself. (Add) Slightly off-topic here, we've been doing these "Flatties" for some time now and we try to apply today's "newer" technologies and "retro-fit" the procedures back to these units! It's one of the reasons we recently started "pinning" the heads to the blocks like the SBC's, it literally keeps the heads from "moving" around during operation. We were one of the first shops (many years back) to complain to Vic Edelbrock to STOP drilling the head bolt holes too large on their Flathead casting's, the holes are way to big in our opinion!! The older Offenhausers I keep here have the correct hole sizes, not sure about their later pieces! There is one of our more recent builds up on the Stromberg website, it has ALL these upgrades and it's been running flawlessly for a few years now in a 4000#+ ride! It gets driven everywhere, not a "trailer-queen". It ends up in Fairmont, Indiana every year for the James Dean run. (Add-2) To DlvDg29, looks don't mean too much, if the integrity of the guide is still intact the liners/seals will make them as new again! Some slight corrosion or even some "chipped" lock-ring rails for the guide retainers wont hurt all that much. It comes down to a judgement call by a knowledgeable machinist. I'm willing to bet most of your's, if not all, are still repairable? Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. Most of the recent "new" guides I believe are made off-shore (not 100% certain) but with the above procedure we are able to reuse 99% of all the original guides! We actually still sell a number of these along with the valves and the stem seals shown in the photo!
Relieve the block; the slight loss in compression if you do it correctly is worth the gain in airflow. A .125 deep relief level with the deck surface is adequate. Deep reliefs and ski ramp style reliefs don't work as well. Roadrunner engineering in AZ has done extensive flow tests on blocks and these were their findings.
Well gents, the valve train (including guides ) have been removed. I also took the timing cover and water pumps off. Guess the crank pulley is next. Anyone have any tips for the rest of the disassembly? Particularly the pulley, timing gear and cam? Thanks for your all your help guys.
Always amazed at the talent on here! We took apart our '52 COE engine and used ATF/acetone mix on the guides. We were lucky and it all came out after some effort. Good luck!!
On the 8BA syle, the crank pulley has a tendency to crack next to the keyway. Keep this in mind when pulling it off. Neal
Have you been soaking the cylinders with penetrant in the meantime, or is this motor loose aready? I just finished the bottom end disassembly on my 8BA, and knocking out some valveguides today.
I haven't been soaking them as of yet. It is stuck, but the cylinder walls all look good with no real noticeable rust. Any suggestions on what to use?
It helps to have one of these. Got it from the guy who did my last valve job. He said "I never want to do another one of those @#$#% falthead again so here take the tools." There is also a special driver to loosen the guides but I couldn't find it for the photo.
Note on split guides....You can replace those with the later style single piece item. My next flatmotor will get the bronze guide treatment, something I overlooked doing on the current item. 4TTRUK
Along with the hook tool shown above, this prybar is how you install and remove the valve/guide/spring assembly as a unit. I just found this picture by Googling "flathead ford valve removal tools". This is what we used at the machine shop. The only drawback I can see to machining the guides for a stem seal, is that you wouldn't be able to use the pry bar to install the assy. It is a very handy tool. You may want to buy or borrow one of these when you start going back together.
Million opinions on this one. I have heard of the following used with success... diesel fuel ATF-Acetone mix Never tried this one,it sounds like a good idea penetrating oil- most any kind should be decent, I like Liquid Wrench because it is cheap, works well and I can pour it on thick. It's thin too, and that seems necessary if it is going to get past the top layer of crust. Get soaking it soon. I soaked for about a week, started picking on the easy ones and moving on if I found a real stuck one. In the end I had one that was real stuck. I ended up busting out the piston crown from the bottomside, removing the crank, thin driving it out from the top with an oak board that filled the cylinder, and used a BFH. Had to hit it a lot harder than I wanted too, but all the cylinders look good in the end. And don't forget to roll the block over and soak the cylinder walls from the bottomside too. Most of what you put on top of piston will probably not make it all the way past the piston. good luck!
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