Looking for SBC build advice from the engine builders

I want to preface this by saying I don’t want to start anything with the SBC haters. My last 2 cars were both flatheads and about as traditional as could be. I know what I want on this build and I’m not changing my mind so if you don’t like the SBC’s just move on to another thread (I’m sure it will get the 1 star rating within minutes anyway)

I am getting ready to build the motor (SBC) for my 40 coupe and I am looking for a good combination. It will be primarily just a street motor but I will occasionally run it at the strip. Maybe I’m asking for too much but I want to be able to drive it long distances and still run some damn good ET’s at the strip. I am hoping get close to the magic 500/500 mark. It will be backed by a Tremec TKO 600 5 speed and a 9” rear. I am looking for advice on proven combinations that work.

I am planning on a 4 bolt 350 block 4.030 bore, with a 3.75 stroke crank (Probably a SCAT) with 6” H beam rods, forged flat top pistons. Balanced of course, I am shooting for 9.5 – 10.0 compression. For heads I was planning on AFR 195’s 23*eliminator street heads. For an intake probably an Edlebrock Performer RPM and an AFB750 Carb. Small body HEI or other electronic set up by Bubba. The rest of it would all be good components, push rods, roller rockers, Z 28 oil pump ETC… [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]
I am undecided on the cam choice. I have never run a Hydraulic roller before but I am thinking maybe a hydraulic roller around 230-235 @ .050 and maybe on a 106 intake center. I want a pretty aggressive cam but need it to be able to pull the OD 5<SUP>th</SUP> gear on the highway too. I’m thinking something in the 2000-5800 or so RPM range. I was planning on the 153 lighter Flywheel and a good clutch Not sure on the rear gear yet either but with a .67 OD I should be able to run a low to mid 4.00 ratio? Maybe even a 4.56 Anyway, Just looking for some real world experience/advice from some of the motor guys. I may be way off on my ideas here but would rather find out before and of course it would be dressed out to look as traditional as I could get it.
Thanks Mike

 

Have you thought about the 400 (4.125 x 3.75 )? There is no arguing with the extra cubic inches and contrary to popular belief I have never had a cooling issue with them. I would also consider a single plane intake , victor jr. or world products . The minor difference in low end will more than be made up for in anything above 4000 rpm ( or so ) .AFR heads are the ticket I.M.H.O. , but a 210 or even a 220cc would be better. Camshaft choice for me is better left to the pro's , call a tech line and see what they recommend. Call a few and feel them out. Scat makes a pretty solid product , just stay away from eagle. I have seen a few issues with sizing from them .

 

Thanks, I dont have anything against the 400 blocks, I just dont think I will have much luck finding 1 around here (so far anyway) I have always hade good luck with the Dual plane intake and thought it might work better while in OD at low RPMS to help with the low end drivability. This is why I am asking now before hand.

 

I think you have a great combination outlined. I'd use an RPM Air Gap and a Holley myself, and as said, call the cam company you like and get a roller cam.Good luck, oughta run great.

 

You may be able to get away with 4.10s with the 383. Also, you may want to consider calling COMP and having them design a custom cam for your application. Also you could ditch the H-beam rods and run a nice I beam 4340 rod. Lighter and more than strong enough. Dont fool with a forged crank either. Wasted weight and dollar bills. While Im telling you what to and not to do ( LOL ), do not rule out other brands of cylinder heads.

 

This is always a tough kind of thread - a bit like our prefrences in beer and women, but you asked, so consider the following:
1. Have you purchased the TKO 600 yet? If not, look at the TKO 600 with the .82 OD - some times called the road race ger set. You get a 2.87 first and the .82 OD. You'll get a better matched gap between all gears and get rid of the big 4 to 5 gap you get with the .64 OD. Works great with a 3.70 rear gear.
2. If you don't have a block, look at the Sportsman or Little M blocks in the 4.125 bore size. Hyd rollers are great, but heavy. You've set a reasonable top RPM, and a 400 or 406 with 5.7" or 6" rods and 9.25 - 9.5 CR is a great street combo set up. I like the 5.7" rod for a street engine. Get rods with the bottom cap screws so you'll have more cam clearance.

 

Thanks for the replies. I have not bought the trans yet but I was hoping to be able to run a pretty low rear gear ratio and then have the .67 OD for highway driving. (my local drag strip is an 1/8) I would like others opinions on this idea too. I may be way off thinking that would work and with the car probably weighing in at under 3000 it may not need that short of a gear anyway.

 

I can't tell if that cam will get you to 500hp/500ft lbs. torque, even with a good pair of heads. I know without some good heads you'll never see 500 hp, regardless of the cam and the stroker crank you plan to use.
I'd also try to stay in the 9.5-10:1 compression, so you wont have to run race fuel.
The cam you've suggested seems like it might be close on duration, but since I don't see any lift info it's hard to say how it will perform.

 

I don't have a specific cam in mind yet, a lot of the roller cams in that range are in the low .500's on lift. In the past I've ran 1.6 rockers to get a bit more lift. I would probably do that again on this motor. I haven't ever ran a hydraulic roller before. I like solid flat tappets but it seems like hydraulic rollers are the thing now.

 

Don't believe you can run a 6" rod with that stroke unless you have a very special piston ( pin is going to run thru the oil ring ) .

 

Maybe if you're really lucky Traditions Racing or Goatroper will chime in . Subscribed.

 

I believe you've outlined a decent combo that should reach the desired marks and possibly surpass them with the right cam. Those AFR heads are really the hot ticket. I'd shoot for a bit more compression, as it is your friend and builds torque. Aluminum heads will usually allow 11:1 on pump gas. For your expected rpm range, definitely stick with a dual plane intake and I wouldn't recommend anything bigger than a 650 carb, brand of your choice, whatever you're most comfortable with. As for a cam, your intake centerline is irrelevant except to install and degree it. If you meant lobe seperation angle, I'd advise to go with a 110. A 106 will sound mean and nasty, but it really won't settle down enough to run under 3k down the highway with that overdrive. 230* at .050 should get you ballpark to where you want to be, but don't be afraid to look a little shorter than that. Get all the lift you can for yor duration.

I have a TKO600 with the .82 overdrive, and with a 3.55 gear it works well for me. The first gear is the equivalent of 4.56 and M22 first gear of 2.20. I actually only use the first 3 gears at the track, then loaf home at 2500 rpm in 5th.

Devin

 

Thanks Devin I do understand about the intake C/L being used as a reference point for straight up installation. The last few cams I've had that worked well were 110 lsa and 106 intake center which I think makes them on a 114 exhaust center when installed straight up. I'm looking at a Comp magnum 280 hydraulic roller and wondering if I used 1.6 rockers how that might work out.

 

There are quite a few engines in and around St Louis for sale on CL right now. Even some 400 blocks. Might want to look into them before spending lots of dough building something.

 

Fuck the one star guys, I took care of them for ya.

I am pretty sure that you want a little less agressive cam shaft. Keep your compression up as much as possible. Most of your build looks spot on at a glance, I will give it a closer look tomorrow. At first blush I am thinking you want a cam shaft that will produce a broad flat power band and that is all I'm seeing that i would change. but I have not given you a good close look yet.

 

I've noticed somebody gives every SBC post a one star rating, regardless of content.

 

Seems like you are on the right track but you have to consider the head you are using and select a matching piston. Cylinder turbulence and quench area very important. I'd suggest surfing over to trickflow's web site... they have dyno proven kits you can consider. Whatever head you choose, call the manufacturer and ask them what piston to use. I dont think your are going to get to 500hp with a Gen1 sbc, 5800RPM red line and modest cam. If you want that type of mild naturally aspirated power you have to go LS.

I've built two similiar 406's recently one with a 6 inch rod and one with a 5.7. The one with the 6 inch rod was noticeably better.


http://static.trickflow.com/global/images/chartsguides/t/tfs dyno super23 195 sbc_2.pdf

 

I had hoped you might get a little more info...free bump for ya.

 

Here's what I think,run a 400 + c.i. Engine with the best AFR aluminum heads you can afford.210cfm or better.you want flat tops and to run the zero gap rings(childs&albert).call up the comp cam guys and give all your specs.they will shoot you straight as to what will give you what your looking for.dart has intakes that are superior to edelbrocks.drag carb-Holley.Stret/strip carb-carter afb style.but that's just my experiences with s/s sbc engines.Good luck,keep us posted on how it turns out.Brice

 

I happen to be a Chevy guy, My pops is a Mopar guy and i work with Ford guys!!!!!!Still one thing in common............We are ALL Gearheads

Rod

 

Well now that we are wishin' an hopen', how 'bout some sort of centrifugal supercharger (Paxton, Vortech, etc.). You could run a little less than 9.5 cr, get good gas milage, still run street gas, give the 383 6 lbs. boost and it would run goood. You could even run the stock 350 crank and a set of good rods, saving money for the blower and get better gas mileage. AND IT WOULD BE BLOWN!!!

Just a thought, John

 

In my opinion your combo is spot on, both gearing and engine. I would run at least 10.0 compression with those heads but I think your hp and torque will be around 450 not 500 with your set up.

 

Been more than 40 years since I have built any SBC, but have built several BBF, BBC in the 460 C.I. range and my thoughts are that making 500/500 on 383 inches at 9:5 compression at 5800 is going to be very difficult. My thinking is you need more cubes, more compression, or more revs, and the valve timing to accommodate the increase in either. I could be completely wrong and will follow this thread closely. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the replies. I know it seems like a tall order but I think it's possible to get there (or pretty close) to the 500/500 from a 383, I seem to recall seeing more than a few dyno reports confirming this. I'm still thinking 6 inch rod and 9.5 - 10.0 compression will work. I am ok runnin a bit more than 10/1 as long as i can still run on pump gas. I like the AFR 195 heads and I'm hoping with the right cam choice and intake I can get the velocity/flow to get there without having to turn more than 6 grand. I still will use this as primarily a street driven car, and with the OD will need to still pull good at lower rpms too.

 

Best off the shelf cam bar none for your deal is Edelbrock Perforrmer RPM, 234 & 244 @.050, .488ex,.510in on 112ls......450hp easy and tons of bottom with the 383.....

 

Be sure to get a proper deck plate bore/hone. I'd use tighter fitting hyper pistons, narrow low tension rings, and spec the clearances to use 5W-20 or thinner oil. The reduced ring friction will net you some mileage, and wear the bores a lot less. The engine will run cooler too.
Quick crude example...take two mostly identical engines, except one shortblock requires 40ft/lbs to roll over using regular oldschool piston rings, the other uses a modern low-tension ring pack and requires only 13ft/lbs to roll over. That's a constant savings of almost 8hp at 1500rpm. If your car cruises at 2500, that equals a constant savings of roughly 13hp while you are driving down the hiway.
As a bonus, WOT at 7000rpm, the low-tension shortblock would have about 36 more hp on tap.

If you were using stock rods/crank, Sealed Power H669ACP flat tops can be had for around $200/set. They use 1.5mm/1.5mm/3mm rings, are coated, and are turned using the latest Speed-Pro Digital Diamond Profile process.

I use a set of similar pistons in my solid roller street/strip car, no problem spraying another 250 worth of hose into my little 355 while burning pump gas.

 

Stick with the AFR heads and call them to talk about what head you should run. Everybody will tell you to run the biggest ones available AFR will be straight with you if your honest on what you want.
I would also go with a pro-systems carb and not an afb, pro-systems will gaurantee more power than any other out of the box carb. They also will help with tuning it once its together.