I am planning my next project which is a 37 Bantam with a flathead 60. I have the 60 from a friend that passed away. It is totally apart with all machine work done and new parts. I need to come up with info to help put it together. I am sure there are some tricks that more experienced guys could give me to avoid a disaster. All help is apreciated. Also would like to use a T-5 tranny. Are there adapters for that? Thanks Doug the "woodtick" Loveland CO
First off, welcome to the H.A.M.B. The searches I've done have not produced much information on the little V8 60. There isn't much in print either but between here and the Ford Barn there's enough from others experience to get you by. I have one of the little engines that I plan to put in a Morris Minor pick up. Use the search functions for V8 60 and start reading, good luck. Mike
I am in the process of doing the same thing right now. I have the drive train temporarily mounted in the chassis and the floorboards and gas tank trial fitted. The engine/trans assembly sits only 3" aft of the original Bantam engine mounting position and will allow use of the original radiator modified for dual inlet/outlet, and very simple front motor mounts bolted to the angle bracket that carries the front fenders and grille. I am using the Bantam transmission but will be adding a Studebaker overdrive unit. Will run early AH Sprite wheels like on the left front that are wider than the Bantam wheels to give me more rubber on the road. I can provide you with details of how I have done it and what parts I used, measurements, etc. if you are interested. Just PM. Good luck with your project, a couple of photos of mine attached, many more available. How about photos of yours? Greg in Jax
My avatar is a 28 coupe I built in the early 90's with a V8 60, a Model A coupe weighs about 2400 pounds and it was a dog. The stock rear gear is a 4:44 and I ran a 3:78, these motors have no torque and need to be ran at around 3000 rpm before they wake up. If you plan on having something to run around town in it will be okay but don't really make good drivers.
Here's one that I had for a few years, after pushing it in and out of the garage 1000 times, I let it go...it was a little rougher thean the photo shows. It was one of two built by famed midget racer Harry Hull, using all midget running gear, and about half of the midget rail frame spliced to the bantam frame. All the axles, front and rear, had originally been chromed, but were really shot after 30 or so years in a dirt floor barn. Had a full race motor. .030 over, Laterra cam, beautifully ported, and relieved etc. Would have needed a ton of work to make it into a viable zip code car, but it did deserve restoration. Reappeared on Craiglist in the last year or so, all apart for 5 or 6 K if I remember correctly. Good luck with yours.
You really had something there! Too bad that you had to let it go, but I know how that goes. This is the other Bantam roadster project that we have. Much better than the car in the photos above but as you say rougher than it looks in the picture.
I have one in my 3/4 scale 32 roadster. Works fine in it, but not pulling to much weight. I have a T5 tranny behind it. I am geared just a bit high, but road speeds are great.
3/4, how is the T5 adapted? Do regular 59A flathead trans adapters fit the 60? I am also thinking about a 60 powered roadster project in the future. I'm sure you guys have seen it, but check out the latest TRJ with the 60 powered roadster featured.
Woodtick and others the 60 horse motor just doesn't get much love. They are good little motors but they need to be in a light car and one should not expect neck snapping torque out of one. That said as far as assembly goes they are just an engine and a manual is your friend. If speed advise is what you are after they take the same speed equipment that any flathead does and the same techniques are applicable. Speed equipment while rare is out there you just have to look for it. Something to remember is that the little motor was used in marine applications as well as midget racing so marine equipment is also a place to look. Another place to look for advise and perhaps a line on go fast goodies on here would be Sod Buster. I believe that he has been playing with the 60 horse motors and is probably pretty knowledgeable about them. Maybe a quick PM will start a dialog, maybe it will not. It is a crap shoot just like life. Good luck benno Edit damnit: i meant to mention that the easiest way to adapt any tranny to one is to use the stock bell and then adapt the tranny to the bell.
Beaner is right. 60 bell housing is the same as the big flatheads up to the 8BA so all of the standard adapters would work fine. And the 60 is great in a small, light car. That is why they were disasters in the '37 - '40 Fords - not very small or light.
Actually my '38 only tipped the scales @ 2800 from what I have read. But another 20-40 hp is a ton in any car. If I was building a T runnabout and wanted it to be a true '30s to late '40s I think that a souped up 60 would be the real deal. I can not put my finger on it either but a souped 60 has a different sound that a bigger flatty.
While on the subject of the 60's, I know that they were designed to run at higher rpm. The sweet spot in a big flathead is about 2600. Anybody know the rpm that a 60 likes to cruise at?
greg,i think beaner ment ,adapt to the 60 block. the 60 bellhousing pattern is diff. from the large flthead. the 60 trans is very small, but if you get a 60 trans from a truck it uses the larg trans gears in a box that bolts to the 60.
When I am thinking of light, I am thinking well under 2000, then they work fine. And you do have to alter the transmission case of a big flathead to allow for the different position of the starter, but aside from the everything bolts up fine. Here is a shot of a modified transmission on a 60, and a set of those Brazilian EmiSul heads on another 60.
I put a Mustang T5 behind my 60hp using an 85hp bell housing and a home made adaptor plate in my '52 MGTD. And with 3.9 gears in the rear end, I'm quite happy with it. Marvin,ct
Nice work. Better photo than mine to show the minor mod to put an 85hp trans behind the 60, too. Ford used the 60 in the UK and France before the War and in France after the War. They were a lot more successful there than in US Fords because the European versions were smaller. They were used in the UK Ford Model 62 and in the French Matford Alsace and Ford Vedette. Ford sold their French interests to Simca in 1954 and Simca made continual improvements to the 60 over time until they stopped using it in French Simcas in about 1960. Simca of Brazil continued improvements until they were getting 95hp out of the flathead. They then went to a DOHC hemi version of the engine that they used until 1967. They are extremely rare in Brazil, let alone the US, although there are a few here that I know of. BTW, there is a great book on the 60 referenced earlier in this thread if you want more info about it.
To my recollection, the only modification to bolt any 85HP trans up to a 60HP is to make a cut out to allow the starter bendix to clear. I have heard of T5s being adapted to V860s and think it would be just as straight forward as MARVIN CT shows. MARVIN CT, have you bolted your V860 starter up yet?
They are actually way under 60 HP in stock trim. On the HC motorcycle they are still underpowered and weak at around 700 lbs. They have been chassis dynoed at barely 30 HP on the bike.
fan's of the V8-60 are a special breed. no matter what you do it is not going to put out the horsepower of it's big brother. know of guy that has one in a Bonneville belly tank with an in&out box (no trans) and can not get it near 100 MPH. do a long search here for T5 to flathead installations and pick out the info that you can use. at fordbarn.com there is "how to: Plans to build a flathead to T5 transmission adapter ($19) or look at speedway and offy adapters and others. also, ford-trucks.com forum "T-5 to flathead adapter info". try earlyfordV8.com and flatheadV8.org. as a side note is a thread here you might like "1948 SO-CAL modified MG-TC" (has Arden head V8-60)
A fellow Barner suggested a gear-reduction type starter, which bolted right in. Otherwise, with the 60hp starter, I'd need to cut a clearance hole in the bell housing. Didn't really care to do that. Marvin,ct
Interesting. So the gear reduction starters have a different bendix style than the stock starters? Yes, there would otherwise be a hole in the bellhousing side of the trans, but a soup can of the appropriate size can be epoxied into place...so I've been told. Is it a specific brand of starter? Or any of the gear-reduction starters?
The starter in my 60hp is listed as a Denso "1 FH60 DC starter", from Automotive Electric in Negaunee, MI. Bolted right in. Try www.autoelec.com. Marvin,ct
Marvin, thanks for the info. The starter on the 60 in my Bantam roadster clears the frame, but just by maybe 1/4". This will help!
Hello, im the current owner of the Hull Bantam. My grandfather and i bought the Bantam, for my first project car, not realizing the amazing history behind it! Almost all the running gear is done, and currently freshening up the 60HP. Im hoping to have it running by late summer. Feel very fortunate to own such an amazing part of east coast hotroding history. Any Information about the Bantam would be greatly appreciated! Thank you, Mark
Glad someone is restoring it, was a little more work than I needed...are you going to redo the chrome? (Mr. Hull used old midget parts on it, the whole front end, and even most of the rear was chromed as well) Check out the vintage midget thread, Stan Lobitz is on there, has a bunch of Harry Hull stuff, and he knows folks with a ton of info... Good luck, and how about some photos?
chrome will come eventully....just want to get it on the road first (this car is indeed a handfull) Thank you very much for the info....and ill make sure to post some pictures
New to the H.A.M.B and I have a 1940 bantam pickup that I want to put a v8-60 in and would love any info anyone can offer. Wanted to know if I can use original frame, front end, and rearend. If anyone had any info could you please help. Thanks Adam
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