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Old gas, big trouble.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by flynbrian48, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 8,220

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Went to the NAPA store today and picked up a new battery so I could fire the T'Bird up and move it around under it's own power. And, back it out into the driveway so I could see the top chop from a distance.

    Put the battery in, it rolled over fine but would not fire. ('87 Ford 302 HO from a Mustang GT). Checked the roll-over switch in the trunk, it wasn't tripped, and there is current getting it, but I couldn't hear the fuel pump run with the switch on. No pressure in fuel rail under the hood, so something was amiss.

    I pulled the carpet in the trunk, and took the in-the-tank pump and sender out ('88 Ford Tempo), and it is siezed up. The rubber insulator ring around the pump body is completely deteriorated, the, probably a 6 or 7 gallons smells varnish-y. It's mess.

    My local NAPA store will have one for me tomorrow morning, matched Auto-Zones price, so hopefully I'll have the tank emptied, and the new pump in, and the car running tomorrow afternoon.

    I've fired the car up several times during it's 6 year nap, but not for a couple years, and even though I put some Sta-bil in the tank, it's been too long setting. It's surprising how much a car deteriorates just setting, hopefully that (and a stuck horn relay) will be only problems I'll find when I get it going.
     
  2. Brian
    It is a pain today but like all your cars it is only a pain until you get it sorted out. I know that you will.

    Now you are going to show us the chop when you get it out where you can stand back and see it aren't you?
     
  3. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have several vehicles that I store for various periods of time. I find I have this problem only with fuel that has alcohol in it. Luckily, we in Minnesota have access to "non-oxygenated" gasoline that has no alcohol. I recently "woke up" one of my vehicles that had three year old gas in it. Started right up, ran well, and didn't stink. I also alway store them absolutely full (adding gas from a can is the last step in putting them to sleep) after adding a pint of Sea-Foam at the station. This has always worked well for me.
     
  4. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 8,220

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Yup. That was the plan, back it outside, stand back and see how bitch'n it looks with the top chop, post up some pics and wait for some public reaction. Now I'm stuck draining old gas and waiting for parts. It was quite surprising how rusty the senders arm is, and the amount of rust scale accumulated in the plastic sump inside the tank. The tank is about 1/3 full.
     

  5. Rich Wright
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,922

    Rich Wright

    I agree. Letting them sit is about the worst thing a guy can do. I try to drive my cars about once a month during the winter.

    I also try to run the carb dry when I know a car is gong to sit for a while and still end up taking the carbs a parts before summer to clean the corrosion. Even with Stabil added....

    Now I hear gas is going to get even worse with increased levels of Ethanol...that stuff eats rubber fast.
     
  6. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    If that motor is injected the injectors will probably be plugged as well. Might look out for that too.

    Don
     
  7. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 8,220

    flynbrian48
    Member

    The pump is an '88, and since then, aside from the time I had the car apart for the build, it's been immersed in gas that entire time. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it was a gummy, sticky, rotten mess.

    I'm hoping the injectors will be OK, but if I have to pull 'em, I have to pull 'em. It's an HO roller cam motor with the goofy looking one side ram intake Ford used then.
     
  8. No it is 2/3 empty. :D
     
  9. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Some time ago I bought the proverbial little old ladies car, an 84 LTD that she had parked in her garage 4 years prior and it just sat. The car was mint and had 50,000 miles on it. When I tried to get it started I had the same thing, it would run when I dumped gas down the CFI, but would not run on the tank. When I dropped the tank it was filled with handfuls of rust.....it was like a bucket of sand had been put in there.

    I bought a junkyard tank and a new fuel pump and filter and surprisingly it ran and cleaned out. Hope you have the same luck once you get the tank cleaned up.

    Don
     
  10. I have actually gotten a few vehicles for free from people who had let them sit so long that the fuel turned to varnish!

    It can be a real pain, but sometimes, you can just drain it and get going!

    Good Luck! :)
     
  11. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,959

    Jimbo17
    Member

    Sounds like a real mess to clean up!!!

    Jimbo
     
  12. Flipper
    Joined: May 10, 2003
    Posts: 3,395

    Flipper
    Member
    from Kentucky

    I've got to do the same thing to my 2000 F250 that I let sit too long.
     
  13. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 8,220

    flynbrian48
    Member

    UGH. I drained 6 gallons of old gas (what'll I do with that now?) from the tank, and entire tank, at least the bottom, is lined with about an eighth of an inch of black gunk that I assume must be varinished fuel. The new fuel pump/sending unit will be here in the morning, but I can't put the new pump down in all that gunk.

    I guess I'm resigned to dropping the tank, scrubbing as much as I can through the sending/pump hole in the top with a rag on a steel rod, then sloshing some laquer thinner around with a length of chain to try to clean the rest. I'm not looking forward to that.

    A real question then is what'll I do with the old gas? Just leaving two cans of old gas in the back of the pickup in the local Wal-Mart and hoping someone steals them is a thought, but there has to be a better way. Maybe burn a gallon or so at a time in a tank of gas in the '76 GMC will get rid of it.
     
  14. RDAH
    Joined: Mar 23, 2007
    Posts: 465

    RDAH
    Member
    from NL, WI

    I used about 2 gallons of old gas to start camp fires in my fire pit. Not all at once mind you & sometimes I had to add fresh gas for it to even light.
     
  15. Best way to use up old gas is just ration it into new gas each fill-up. A gallon or two will not affect the vehicle it is put into. To actually dispose of old gas, like at a hazardous waste place is nearly impossible. Just burn it up in your old truck.
     
  16. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    My departed dad's Merc Marquis sat for about 18 months with 1/4 tank in it. On its maiden recovery voyage it started bucking and hesitating. I filled it up with fresh gas and prayed for the best on a 100 mile trip and we had a few shaky moments where it stalled out. It eventually took about 600 miles of driving to clear up completely including a fuel filter change and at least two cans of injector cleaner.

    Nowadays I run everything dry when putting stuff away for the season. That's hard to do with fuel injection, though.

    Old gas make a decent cleaning fluid but it stinks to high heaven. I usually put some into my lawn equipment fill ups to get rid of it. If I have too much I drop it at the local haz-mat place when they have those free annual clean-up days.
     
  17. rjaustin421
    Joined: May 1, 2009
    Posts: 337

    rjaustin421
    Member

    True story, slightly OT but in the same vein.

    I had a long time customer that was an FE ford man through & through who scrapped cars with his 390 powered wrecker after he got off his Entenmann's Bakery route. One afternoon Eric went out to start his wrecker and all it did was crank slow, fetch up for a spell and then turnover like it jumped time. A compression test showed 0 compression in all 8 cylinders and he pulled the heads, every valve was bent.

    When he brought the heads to me for reconditioning he was still baffled as to what happened and after removing the springs not one valve would move. From the time Eric brought the heads in I smelled varnish and when I looked closer every valve had a thick coating of something on the stems, I said that it sure seems like incredibly bad gas went through the engine.

    That is when he realized that his long term policy of siphoning the fuel from the cars he scrapped cost him big time, the gas in the donor car had indeed turned to varnish and all was well while the engine was running & hot, the gas & varnish concoction combined enough to let the engine run. When the truck was shut off at the end of the day the varnish set up and the next day every valve was glued into the position they were in when it stopped.

    I sold a lot of valves on that valve job...:D
     
  18. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 8,220

    flynbrian48
    Member

    OK, this just keeps getting better. This morning I put a length of chain in the tank with a gallon or so of lacquer thinner and sloshed it around 'till my arms ached. Then dumped that out into a drain pan filled with kitty litter which I'm letting dry in the chilly December sun before I dump it into a garbage bag and put in the Herby Kerby.

    This was repeated twice.

    Then, a quick trip to the quarter car wash and I blasted the inside of the tank with the high pressure soap through the (rather large) fuel pump opening.

    There, I discovered that once the crap was blasted off the inside, there are pinholes in the upper left hand corner of the tank. It's still got so much gunk in it that I'm not sure how I'd get it clean enough to use. A buddy of mine owns a radiator shop, he said sometimes rinse the tanks with muratic acid, which gets 'em clean, but then the tank needs to be re-sealed. Which, this one obviously needs anyway.

    So, I guess it's worth a try with the acid and then some tank seal, and we'll see if I can salvage the tank. If I'd have done this yesterday, I'd be looking for a poly tank at the boneyard that'll fit between the frame rails, but I have the pump coming for this one, so I'm sort of committed at this point.

    Plus, I smell so strongly of old gas, I'll have to burn the clothes I was wearing and shower for about an hour...
     
  19. My wagon sat for 30 years with gas in to .... it turned to gooey varnish. They dont repop em so I gave the tank to a dipper to do his majik ... and he gave it the Kreme treatment .... I also added a drain plug-bung .... no problems now.
     
  20. jchav62
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 1,932

    jchav62
    Member

    My brother in law is a mechanic...owns his own shop and he swears by fuel injected every vehicle he owns with the Chevy TBI setup. And that setup runs great! The only thing is, he's kind of like the rest of us with a small collection of vehicles. Some of them stay 'stored' for long periods of time... these fuel injected setups aren't the best for storing for long periods of time. About once or twice a year he is dropping the tank to replace a rusted out, siezed up, in tank fuel pump. The injectors usually clean themselves out with a few miles and some fuel injector cleaner.. but what a pain. You gotta drive 'em! Good luck with the rest of your repair... sucks about the tank but I'm sure you'll have it under control soon.

    JC62...
     
  21. czuch
    Joined: Sep 23, 2008
    Posts: 2,688

    czuch
    Member
    from vail az

    I had a radiator shop clean the tank in the 61 Galaxie. As I recall it was around $100 and worth every penny. They even painted it.
     
  22. Jonnie King
    Joined: Aug 12, 2007
    Posts: 2,078

    Jonnie King
    Member
    from St. Louis

    Brian...

    Good luck with that, my friend ! Wanna see the chop !! All of your rides are just VERY cool !!!

    Jonnie
     
  23. Leakie
    Joined: Nov 10, 2010
    Posts: 270

    Leakie
    Member


    I had that same thought, but it did not work. I have a two gallon can of old gas that has been sitting in the back of my truck for a couple months now. When you want someone to steal it they don't!
     
  24. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 8,220

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Just got back with a gallon of muratic acid, gonna get that going, and head for NAPA to get the new fuel pump/sending unit. A buddy of mine swears by Hirsch tank sealant, and I looked on line at some stuff by Caswell that, at least from their site, that it'd work as well.

    Wish me luck...
     
  25. slinginrods
    Joined: Oct 6, 2008
    Posts: 422

    slinginrods
    Member
    from florida

    stabil does not have the additives needed to help with ethanol fuels.you have to use ethanol treatment from lucas or a similar type made for ethanol fuel.then you need to run the car at least once a week and continue to use fresh gas.otherwise drain the tank completely.btw your injectors are probably needing replaced.i put an 5.7 ls engine in a guys car that sat for 2 months .ran when removed.when we went to start it the injectors were so gummed from the ethanol that there was zero flow out the pintle.got lucky and cleaned them with carb spray and soaked them.good luck
     
  26. BadgeZ28
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,165

    BadgeZ28
    Member
    from Oregon

    I am kinking myself for not putting a drain plug in the gas tank when I replaced it.
     
  27. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 2,516

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Brian;

    Hirsch makes two good gas-stabilizers, one for ox-gas, one for non-ox. Expensive & smell really bad, but work "the best". Guaranteed 3 years fuel stabilization. Or used to be. Long term storage, I use *only BP Premium*, add in a low mix of synthetic 2stroke oil. Oil helps lube things up a bit, + contains a fuel stabilizer too. I've left the BP Premium in a less-than-full tank for more than 2 years, & it still smelled fresh. Not new, but not even close to varnished. Where I always get into trouble, is not deciding early enough, that said transportation is going to be "stored", much less "long stored". Found a tank rotted through on my Amc Eagle, w/the putrid crap dripping through. Also agree on the danger(s) of running old varnished gas in a decent engine. The "tighter" it is, the worse thing are. A lot of it doesn't even want to burn... Does work to kill weeds, but then all that sxxt runs through the ground into the ground water. So it goes to the recycler, one way or another...

    & I'm really liking the idea of a drain plug. Life could be so much easier then... :D .

    Marcus...
     
  28. millersgarage
    Joined: Jun 23, 2009
    Posts: 2,294

    millersgarage
    Member

    I was amazed at how fast gas around here goes bad. When I did the engine swap in my '47, it sat for about 10 months, and the gas in the tank smelled like paint thinner. I didn't dare use it in the new engine.
    A friend of mine took it to use in his lawn tractor.

    I was thinking Bonfire...
     
  29. busajack
    Joined: Jun 16, 2012
    Posts: 67

    busajack
    Member
    from wy

    Just the govts. way of making you get rid of your old cars.:confused:
     
  30. SquireDon
    Joined: Aug 8, 2010
    Posts: 600

    SquireDon
    Member
    from Oregon

    Brian,

    Is the tank the original T-bird tank, or is it also an '88 Tempo tank?
     

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