Cooling 289 Fords -" Gano Filter"

Its really not a big item for discussion. If you want to monitor your cooling system after a fresh build, it makes sense no matter whatever engine or how meticulously you have cleaned and assembled. I always see a bit of RTV or flakes of sediment and know that there is nothing large enough to block a core passage

 

yup.

 

Well lets see stupid and ignorant, well look at you Mr Most Intellegent man on the planet.

Which states would that be that have outlawed hot tanking? Maybe you should name them and I know that you can because you are the most intellegent and well informed man on the planet.

Blocked radiators my bleeding ass. In all my time I have yet to block a radiator. I have never used then [sic] at all.

 

I have never had a blocked rad on any fresh engine. Hot tanking is still legal here, but I dont even do it on every engine build. And if you are seeing alot of rtv flushed out of the cooling system on a fresh engine, you REALLY need to take a long look at your assembly methods. If you are that sloppy with the rtv, its a pretty good indication that you are pretty sloppy in other areas as well.

 

I've had a clogged radiator in the '64 Falcon Sprint V8 I used to own.

New ( about 6months of use ) radiator, 302 that I did a quick re-ring on.

New bearings too.

I had the block cooked by a machine shop.

What must have happened was that the cleaning loosened the crud inside the engine enough to be carried through the system filling up the tubes in the rad.

Solid...


I ended up rodding them out myself with a dipstick I ground a tip on because the radiator shop didnt want to do it.
( and I didnt want to buy another new Rad...)


I'm pretty sure a little piece of mesh would not have prevented it...

 

Believe it or not, they actually exist...LOL

 

oh well, now that you put it that way.....

 

.....Next time you see the guy who told you this, you need to kick him in the nuts...just sayin...

 

Optimist!

 

Uh, yeah, kid, and you'll need one of these here skyhooks to install it.

 

You can (and should) thoroughly rod out the water jackets before you assemble an engine. I roll it over on a sheet of plywood while I do this, makes clean-up afterwards easy. You will be AMAZED at the amount of shit and crud that falls out, hot-tanked or not. Alot of hot tanks are not cleaned regularly enough, and the blocks come out pretty dirty anyway.
If the cam bearings are sound, I usually try to avoid hot-tanking a block if I can. I start by doing the above mentioned rodding, then I clean the entire block with a mixture of hot running water and whisk detergent (whisk is slightly caustic, use rubber gloves), pull ALL the galley plugs, go through them all with rifle brushs, and if necessary, a coat hanger, thoroughly scrub all the surfaces with a stiff-bristled brush. After it comes back from the machine shop, I repeat, including rifle brushing the galleries, until all machined surfaces dont show ANY transfer of 'gunk" on a fresh, clean paper towel, then one more rinse with hot water and whisk, followed with a thorough flush with clean hot water. After that, I wipe it dry, coat the machined surfaces with atf, and bag it till assembly time. Its a lot of work, but theres no such thing as "too clean" when it comes to engines, or automatic trans.

 

I pretty much do it the same way so I guess you are stupid and ignorant. Well maybe not I use tide instead of wisk.

I have actually started using a power washer on my blocks, it is amazing the crud that will come out of an old water jacket.

Here is the difference if you are not a good builder or you don't want to perform periodic maintance then you need a gadget. Here is my question if you are not going to perfom periodic maintance anyway (I flush my engines every fall and replace what antifreeze I need to fill it back up) who is going to change the filter?

By the way did I mention that you are stupid and ignorant? Just like me?

 

These Gano filters do indeed work. I have an ancient 289 in my Comet that had HUGE chunks floating around in the cooling system. I flushed it over and over until the water was so clear I wouldnt have been afraid to drink from it. The radiator was plugged (even though it was only a year old) and it sounded like a tin can full of gravel when I shook it. I flushed it, refilled it with straight water and oxalic acid and ran it that way for a week. I then tore it apart again, replaced the radiator, installed the Gano filter (I used the solid aluminum one that had to be disassembled for inspection), filled it with water and a bottle of Water Wetter (no antifreeze) and put it all back together. It never gets over 195 even in the brutal Fresno Summer. A year after I installed the filter I tore it apart for inspection and the filter had caught some good sized pieces. When I back flushed the radiator it was as clean as a whistle. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.

 

I'm sold - I'm gonna get me a gross of them and give them away for Christmas to all my friends and relatives that don't have enough sense to have already bought one.

 

A reverse flush might dislodge some of the particles (rust, sand, whatever) that have wedged in the radiator tubes. I don't think a forward flush would. A friend's badly neglected DOdge pickup had essentially no heat. A forward flush of the heater core with our 40 psi well water was clear. The reverse flush was briefly filthy. The heat was better, but not really very powerful.

I believe there are long term advantages to filtering fluids like gasoline, engine oil, coolant, ATF and power steering fluid. Volvos came stock with little filters in the windshield washer line before the nozzles. Without the filter they do plug much more often.

Over the Road big rig Trucks maintenance includes evaluating periodic coolant pH and chemical analysis. Diesel Combustion causes cylinder liner vibration that in turns causes cavitation pitting on the liners, and their coolant includes additives to help control that. Those big rigs are often equipped with coolant filters and some have two. Navistar equips their trucks with a coolant filter. Supposedly Ford does not order the coolant filter when they order Powerstoke engines from Navistar, so maybe there is a parts sales incentive on Navistar's part. There are some recommendations to change and engine's after after 3 kmiles. then 6k then 12 therafter.

Among their owners Studebaker V8s are famous for filling the lower portion of the block with rust and other debris up to the level of the drains or core plugs. Maybe that is exacerbated by running coolant after the sacrificial corrosion inhibitors are depleted. Seems like a filter would help reduce some of that.

 

A reverse flush might dislodge some of the particles (rust, sand, whatever) that have wedged in the radiator tubes. I don't think a forward flush would. A friend's badly neglected DOdge pickup had essentially no heat. A forward flush of the heater core with our 40 psi well water was clear. The reverse flush was briefly filthy. The heat was better, but not really very powerful.

I believe there are long term advantages to filtering fluids like gasoline, engine oil, coolant, ATF and power steering fluid. Volvos came stock with little filters in the windshield washer line before the nozzles. Without the filter they do plug much more often.

Over the Road big rig Trucks maintenance includes evaluating periodic coolant pH and chemical analysis. Diesel Combustion causes cylinder liner vibration that in turns causes cavitation pitting on the liners, and their coolant includes additives to help control that. Those big rigs are often equipped with coolant filters and some have two. Navistar equips their trucks with a coolant filter. Supposedly Ford does not order the coolant filter when they order Powerstoke engines from Navistar, so maybe there is a parts sales incentive on Navistar's part. There are some recommendations to change and engine's after after 3 kmiles. then 6k then 12 therafter.

Among their owners Studebaker V8s are famous for filling the lower portion of the block with rust and other debris up to the level of the drains or core plugs. Maybe that is exacerbated by running coolant after the sacrificial corrosion inhibitors are depleted. Seems like a filter would help reduce some of that.

I'm still in the "thinking about it " phase for an ATF filter from NAPA

 

I have been told that dozens of times, so it must be true.. I dont have enough sense to run too small a carb, not enough compression, and too small a cam, and as a result, my cheap, unsophisticated, low $$, outdated junk makes stupid power. So it naturally follows, I must be stupid...

PS: like the power washer idea. Might try that out.

 

I first became aware of these when restoring an old Mustang in the 1980's Those cars had marginal cooling to start with and it only got worse over time as rust and scale built up. These filters work great at catching that crap and allowing you to clean it out which over a little bit of time will clean out the system and the car will run cooler. And although they seem to have really found favor with the early Mustang crowd, they will work with all old cars.
Unlike all the naysayers, I have actually used them and it did make a difference on a couple of old cars, you will be amazed how much crap is floating around through your system.
But hey you don't need to listen to those who have used them, ignorance is always bliss.

 

I have a hard time with machined surfaces getting a rust haze between drying and oiling, slow poke I guess..I found that using cold water flush after the hot water slows the rust down some but even the special no rust rinse product didn't do squat for me..

 

I'll throw in my experience here .....

I bought a $1,200 crate 350 SBC (hecho in Mexico?) for my Studebaker when it was being built in 1994. After I moved to Arizona in 1996, the engine was overheating and I pulled the radiator. It was plugged on the top of the tubes with a gel like substance. I had it cleaned out and the guy at the radiator shop loaned me his back-flush kit so I could clean the engine out. He rodded the radiator and after several years, the same thing happened. When I pulled the radiator and took it to the shop to have it rodded out, he convinced me to add a Gano filter in the upper radiator hose. The radiator hasn't plugged up again but I can see all kinds of crap in the filter and need to remove it to clean it.

 

Well, since we're on the subject, I've played hell trying to get my 302 to stay cool at idle for the last year. I put in a high flow water pump, drained and flushed the cooling system and it still climbs to 210+ sitting in traffic, even in mild temps. What gives? It's a mild 302, stock 260v8 radiator (its in a '62 Fairlane). Its got a clutch fan and a switched electric front-mounted pusher fan, anyone want to toss me some clues?

 

I used one of these http://www.speedwaymotors.com/1964-66-Mustang-Aluminum-Fan-Shroud,37888.html on my 64 Ranchero. I installed a high flow water pump and found a pusher fan (I use a off/on switch) that fits in front of the radiator without cutting anything up (heavy duty GM trucks it cools the A/C condenser). How far is the block bored (.030 or .060 ?). I couldn't use the box on the shroud kit (no room) but I used the ring with a 6 blade flex fan. Works pretty good, better then the old steel four blade fan that when I would sit in traffic and just watch the heat gauge going up and up.

 

I have no idea what the bore is on the block, I haven't had the heads off since I bought it. I just know that for a 302 with iron heads, she moves that boat pretty damn fast. I've got the switched fan installed in front of the radiator, and a high flow water pump. I've also got the ring shroud around the clutch fan, like you mentioned. I've heard mixed reviews about the flex fan, but you're right, that four blade fan is pretty cumbersome. I'd like to ditch it all together for an alum rad with front/rear electric fans on a thermostat, but thats $$$

 

I've heard that early SBF's were prone to rusty water jackets. Never seen it but I've only owned '67 and up SBF's. I suppose back in the day some people might run straight water which I'm sure is going to add to the problem. I have cleaned a few old 289s out while I was changing core plugs and they were silty down low at the back ( from the angle of the motor) Ironically right by the block drain plugs!
Funny we filter all other fluids so it seems like good idea really.

 

A inline coolant filter is a good tool to use under the right circumstances. The GANO filter I used to catch alot of crap that was floating in a engine that had sat with a open cooling system for like 10 years worked really great. It was like $35. Just a handy little American made product.

 

The first red flag is that you have a radiator with a core sized for a 260 trying to cool a hopped up 302. For all you know, you could have a 331 or 347 stroker. The second red flag is the high flow water pump. It sounds like a good idea, but heat transfer across a heat exchanger is directly related to the amount of time the fluid to be cooled remains in the heat exchanger to give up its' heat. If the fluid is moving too quickly through the tubes, it doesn't have a chance to give up enough heat. What size thermostat do you have in the car? Have you tried "burping" the system of air? Have you tested the clutch on your mechanical fan? There are a hell of a lot of factors at play with cooling system issues on 302s. I've been through almost all of them.

 

And you guys wonder why we run chevy's. LOL.

 

The first red flag is that you have a radiator with a core sized for a 260 trying to cool a hopped up 302.



Valid point, and I have considered replacing the radiator. I've been told that the side tanks are more efficient than the top/bottom tank style rads. Confirm/deny?





For all you know, you could have a 331 or 347 stroker.

I sure hope that's the case




The second red flag is the high flow water pump. It sounds like a good idea, but If the fluid is moving too quickly through the tubes, it doesn't have a chance to give up enough heat.

Another good point





What size thermostat do you have in the car?

195





Have you tried "burping" the system of air?

Yes. I have the funnel/rad cap air burping set up






Have you tested the clutch on your mechanical fan?

Yes, and it does function properly





Thanks for the reply! I'm thinking of taking measurements and just hitting the junk yard and pull an aluminum rad that'll fit it




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Whiskey tango foxtrot. I'll pass.

 

If it was truly "a must have item" , ford would have put them in at the factory. Simple idea,filter your coolant like you do your oil and transmission fluid , but if your system is flushed periodically, no need for it.