Wages at restoration shop questions

As a function of my pre-retirement position, I was involved with lots of local small businesses, and I have retained those contacts, for the most part. These people are quite wary at this time about what crap is going to run downhill from Washington after the election ... taxes, regulation, etc. Many of them are playing it close and with their number one concern being what is best for their own families. If they have a business nest egg, they are holding on to it for self preservation if need be. And until they get some indication about where it's all going, they aren't making decisions that will negatively impact their bottom line. So this might not be the most opportune time to bring up an issue such as this.

 

When I said "make money on the side " I didn't mean cutting into his bosses business .......but I'll tell you where you can make extra money . cutting grass and shoveling snow !!

I'm a senior citizen and can cut the grass but have a heck of a time with snow removal. NOBODY has ever knocked on my door to ask for work . As I kid , we would make extra money all the time this way . Numerous old folks have the same issue . Check it out .

T

 

Like Second Amendment and others are saying here, are you the hardest working, the least quarrelsome and the most quality oriented guy there? Not trying to dog you here, but those kind of people were the ones I considered indespensable when I had my shop. Those 3 things should get you anywhere in this line of work, if the economy allows people to spend money on restorations.

 

i have to disagree with that.... there is an entity that does give it away , but we shouldn't discuss it here

 

Shit you should work in the steel foundry business.
Haven't had raises in 8 years & we're happy as hell when they don't cut our wages.

 

Wages will be based on skills. If you feel your skills have surpassed your income I suggest you discuss it with the shop supervisor or owner and hear what they have to say.

 

I don't see much prosperity mentality here, just be thankful for your portion of gruel.

 

I've been a new guy before and had people tell me they were making XX.XX per hr and been there a while, sometimes I was making .50-1.00 more per hr and I had just started and just played it off like what they thought I was making. Felt bad for those people.

.25 cents per hr 30 years ago was a signifigant amount. But you learned how things can sometimes go. Is a part of life. Everyone has to learn and experiance things. It made you a smarter person.

Definately at least ask in a private setting with no employee's around.

It will set the tone for how you will feel about your job, and what you think your next move is if there is one. And it will give you negotiating experiance for the future. He will either give you a BS excuse as to why not, or be sincere and level with you explaining how tight things are and X amount of dollars goes here and X amount goes there. Or maybe he see's it as you deserving one.

I've never ever met a poor business owner. They wouldn't be in it if they weren't making enough to make it worth their time. And no one big ever made a name for themselves, or opened up their own shop because they were happy with what they were making working for someone else, or because they "negotiated their pay when they got hired" and that was acceptable, or they thought "my boss has alot of overhead so let me suffer" in any sort because if everyone played by those rules no one would open their own shop, no one would ever be a millionaire cause that's simply not life or true.

No the grass isn't always greener. But sometimes you have to check.

 

Twenty five cents an hour? You realize thats only ten bucks a week?

No business owner hires unless they can make more off the employee than the employee costs. It's called profit, and there's nothing wrong with it, except when it becomes abusive.

 

If you've honestly evaluated your skills and feel you should be paid more it's time you went to another shop.

 

The current economic situation sucks. I'm sure there are bosses out there suffering and have to cut back on wage increases, but there are a lot that are merely using the economic climate as a smoke screen to line their own pockets at the expense of their employees.
I work for a corporation, have been for almost six years. Glowing reviews, expanded responsibilities, and everything as it should be for carer growth.

Instead, I've been receiving 0.5% annual wage increases only for the last 2 years, next year my health benefits are being stripped away to what can only be described as Faux insurance. All this while I sit and watch management award themselves huge bonuses and complain their expenses aren't being paid in a timely enough manner.

Yep, I'm being screwed, like many others. I calculated Im actually earning 20% less than when I started in real terms.

Still, I'm sitting, watching, waiting for something better to come along. But it sucks out there. I'm just thankful I have an income...for now. That damn corporate radar is always on, looking to get rid of someone.

Nothing wrong with looking for a raise, just be tactful and respectful and let your boss you appreciate the employment. Small business owners are sometimes more receptive and will give you an honest answer.

My place? I just get some corporate bs about budgetary restraints and "possible realignment".

 

My grandson left the custom field and went to work for a dealership where he could get the benefits. If you don't have health insurance at work, you are playing the odds and an accident or sickness can wipe you out.
One thing that helped him get his job at the dealership was a portfolio of his work. He was the only one of the twenty applicants for the job that had a portfolio.
Think ahead.

 

Ask you're employer if you are meeting his expectations and what you could do to attain a raise. This at least opens up a open conversation where you can both express your needs. Let him outline your path towards a raise. You might be suprised in how he veiws the work you perform and he might be suprised at your veiwpoint also. Getting you both on the same page is a win/win for you both.

 

I agree with eppster, stop looking at him as your employer, stop listening to others about money, get to know your boss, treat him like a compadre, get to know his business and start really busting your ass. REMEMBER, he's competing for pleasure dollars if he's in the hot rod business, a commodity that is in short supply these days, money not spent by the car owner unless he's got it.
Next, help the guy grow, if he gets big, so do you, you need to be in a position that losing you would really hurt him, he'll pay you as much as he can.
Most importantly, employees think that they get up in the morning and get a paycheque, its a rare guy who understands that a business has to make money to even survive, you're all in it together, learn your craft and learn it well, he's also paying you to learn.
If he's running off on vacations all the time, its time to talk to him about your worth, but if he's slaving away, so should you.

 

Sometimes you have to do a mind check. Think back to the day you got hired and how thankful and excited you were.

Now having said that I think back to the advice my old man gave me when I was just a kid. If you take a job give it your best,work harder and smarter than anyone else and you'll always have a job and if they won't pay you what you're worth, work even harder cause you want the miserable,tightfisted cheap bastards to really miss you when you leave.

 

I take working in the automotive field very seriously. My statement is not meant to disparage anyone else working on cars, this is just the way I've went about building my career and not meant to place myself above or below anyway else who works on cars as a career.

I've been a paid mechanic for more then 30 years and I was working on cars for 10 more before that with my father.
My first job was a tune up mechanic in the early 80's. I was making about $20 an hour. Benefits were limited to a Christmas bonus and two weeks of paid vacation after a year of work. Even though I thought I knew a lot, I was learning how to become more productive from the older guys.
Our service writer made 50k a year plus some sort of percentage of the net. He was a former Ford service writer and he was quite the salesman; honest though and not a crook. He made good recommendations on what peoples cars needed.
My mentor was a grizzled old, whiskey drinking, smoker who loved the ladies. He was excellent with multi carburetion and dual points. I learned a ton from him but the biggest thing I learned was to move on.
As a teenager he had worked for the famous Woods Bros. team and his stories of the glory days prompted me to look for a job in racing. I decided to leave and he told me "keep learning about what's hot and do work you'd be proud to put your name on and never half ass anything and quality jobs will find you."

So I went to a Cadillac dealership where the customer expects a higher level of service and preferable no comebacks. Those were the "good ol' days of dealerships" half the flat rate, plus a percentage of the parts, a retirement plan, vision, dental, healthcare and training programs! There I gained a reputation as a really good tune-up and diagnosis guy which in turn lead the service writers to "cherry pick" the best customers to me.
At 23 years old I averaged 160 flat rate hours a week and was making close to my father who happened to be an aerospace eng. for McDonald Douglas. It was good money but when your young you think and want more. Which isn't always a bad thing. I took a bunch of classes, as many as they would allow and those classes also added to my pay grade. But then those at the top decide they needed to make more and executive bonus went up as profits and sales went down and then of course our salaries had to be cut back to keep the shareholders making a profit.
So I didn't want to make less either and went looking for a high end independent shop.

I applied at Hollywood Ferrari and Newport Ferrari and the like but the service managers all thought a Cadillac guy was below them. But like things do sometimes I took a wrong freeway off ramp and happened across a small independent Ferrai restoration shop.
As soon as I walked in and saw a shop labor rate of $120 an hour I knew this could be the place. Remember this was in the mid to late 80's and those rates were crazy.
The owner interviewed me and told me the shop rate for repairs was 120 per hour but the restoration hours were more since the work was not standard and demanded impeccable attention to detail. He hired me to work with a team of men who would be handling the recreation of 250 GTO. I made about 250k that year, no benefits, weekends and holidays off. I was assigned the engine rebuild of a very rare 4 cam, 4 valve, 24 plug Ferrai racing engine. It was really cool because I got to work with actual Ferrari engineers from their restoration section in Italy.
That opened the door to where the real fun was racing.

So while I was doing that engine I was looking for a profeesional race team who needed an engine guy. Again these things just have a way of finding you when your doing quality work; a friend of mine was racing an NHRA Pro/Stock motorcycle and needed a rider/tuner.
I took a shot at it and on one of our tune up days Brad Anderson {6X NHRA TA/FC Champion} comes up to my partner and asks "who does your cylinder heads." My friend who was doing our heads got a job the next day with Brad. A few months later were still running the bike and Brad calls asking if I would like to interview for the CrewChief position on his team. Actually back then they weren't even called CrewChiefs. I get the job at Brads' but need to also work on the side finishing the 4 cam. I made a lot of money with Brad that year and he did win the Championship, he was very generous and I mean a lot of money. I 'd say but Brad would be pissed if I did, suffice to say I was making more then all the guys on the Bud King team combined. What I learned there was, at my time of hire Brad said " this car has no budget, and I mean that! We are here to win Championship and that sells cylinder heads and that's what I do. We don't win a Championship I sell less heads and your out of a job, got it!"
To put things in prospective, we didn't get Holidays off. We worked Christmas because if we weren't some else probably was. The hours were brutal and the sacrifice was great and best of all Phil, my ol' whiskey drinking mentor was right I cherish those days and will until I die. But all good things must come to an end so I moved on.

Actually I took a break and was thinking if I invested wisely I could retire. I wasn't even 30 yet and thinking of retirement.

Again the jobs have a way of finding you when your striving to do your best work and an offer came from a small company who happened to do work for F-1 teams {Lamborghini to be specific}. They were working on a trans that could do full power up and down shifts for off shore boats with F-1 engines but they needed someone who knew about dog and cog boxes and computers. Long story short, the company was bought out because of financial difficulties at Lamborghini and I was re-assigned to the trans team for the Senna and Prost, McLaren Hondas. I took a pay cut on this one because I knew a lot of the guys I was working with were sharper then I and being paid less then I was makiing at Brads' but I also knew that this job would push my resume to a new level. Of course all good things come to an end in motor racing and your contract is usually only a few years at best.
But now with National and World Championship titles on my resume from a Top Alcohol team and an F-1 team I could literally interview for a job anywhere in the auto industry.

Today, nearly 20 years later I work two jobs. One in a shop with a labor rate of $160 per hr. All the mechanics here average about $50 per hour plus yearly cost of living adjustments, 4 weeks paid vacation, 15 paid Holidays, 2 weeks of paid sick time, 2 weeks of flex time, medical, vision and dental care all paid for me and my family, plus a retirement annuity.
Averages out to about 160k a year when you add in the time off and the benefits. Which may seem like a lot but in California that's middle class living! We still have to budget to make ends meet just like everyone else.
Job number two is my own shop where I do commission only work for a major auto maker on their former race cars. The two jobs combined plus the wifes income make for a comfortable lifestyle.

My mentors taught me that there is no such thing as good enough when you expect to be paid top dollar, your work, the needs of your client and your dedication to their project must exceed the customers expectations even when it inconviences you!

I have never had a problem finding high paying work even in lean times because customers who are well off always have the means to pay for their toys even when we don't.

I have a very large group of friends that are mechanics and for the most part they are all very well paid, at least 50k a year, They all have worked hard at their careers. Some are in dealerships, other in motor racing and then some in specialty shops. What they all have in common is they work for places that turn out quality work by skilled mechanincs/ craftsmen who educate themselves continually and turn out quality work.

There is as much money as you want to make in the auto industry but you need to decide how much of yourself you want to decicate to this career. Then you need to do whatever you need to do to make yourself a valuable assest to wherever you choose to hang your hat.

 

I figure you and the new guy will have plenty of time to compare wages on the unemployment line once the boss gets wind of this.

 

Your a luckyman,your in a profession where you can make good money from your shed on w/ends,and it's C$$H,those small rust n dent jobs are Gold and you know it.Give your boss some slack,nobody gives him a raise,he can only quote higher,but with the way things are ATM he won't get the work,that put's you out of a job''understand'' , good luck, Gaz !

 

777, I couldn't match (or even come close to) your numbers and I own the shop. Wow impressive.

I try to give my guys a raise every year(the exception to this is if they cost me money!). I also try to go up on labor rates to compensate but it doesn't always work that way. I have not gone up in three years because my market will not support it right now.

 

777 said it perfectly, "Do what you need to do to make yourself a valuable asset to wherever you choose to hang your hat."

I have always advocated what I did to earn more money. I worked a day job at what I wanted to do for a living and took night classes to get a degree. It took me over 10 years to do it but it was rather painless that way. Along the way I picked up additional income racing professionally but mostly here I picked up contacts in the industry that would help later when I went into business.
You can never know too many people. Many times in the past I was jokingly accused of knowing everyone in the business and while far from true, it was a good feeling.

 

Everything is going up. And probably your shops shop rate. Everyone deserves a raise. Fuck the phrase your lucky to have a job..

 

BCR, the numbers don't mean squat in the end. If your guys are happy and your customers are happy, you've made it. You own your own business and are making ends meet! That's awesome! Its living the Ameriacan dream. You don't have to answer to a Boss, which believe me can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

Truthfully I didn't start my own shop until it was finacially safe for me to do, I envy you guys that put it all out there, even if it fails. I relied on someone else and in a way still do.
Happy Holidays and I hope next year is the beginning of future growth for you and your business.

 

exactly and if the new guy wasnt happy with what he agreed to, why did he agree to it? I hate it when new people come in and stir shit for others.
Also, I NEVER asked for a raise, my work ethics, my diligence and commitment to the cause got me the raises I deserved.

 

Yep, I feel like a blessed guy, I created my dream job. I sure wasn't bitchin about my condition, just envious of your success.

Sounds like you really lived your dreams and I respect that.

 

The only way I have gotten a raise is to have another job and quit.

If you're worth it, the boss will pony up to keep you.

Be prepared to follow through as there are many unemployed driving down wages.

 

What if we take this in another direction, not to hijack the thread or anything.

If a guy was to open a restoration or custom shop, how does he decide what to pay his employees? Obviously he'll only be able to pay what he can afford, and as the shop makes more, can hire higher quality employees at higher wages. At least that's the way it seems like it would work on paper.

But how close to the "going wage" should one be when hiring, and should this line be skated upon? Seems like sometimes it's hard ro make a go of a shop without screwing at least SOMEBODY (yourself, your employees, the customers, the bank, etc).

~Jason

 

What if we take this in another direction, not to hijack the thread or anything.

If a guy was to open a restoration or custom shop, how does he decide what to pay his employees? Obviously he'll only be able to pay what he can afford, and as the shop makes more, can hire higher quality employees at higher wages. At least that's the way it seems like it would work on paper.

But how close to the "going wage" should one be when hiring, and should this line be skated upon? Seems like sometimes it's hard ro make a go of a shop without screwing at least SOMEBODY (yourself, your employees, the customers, the bank, etc).

~Jason

 

A guy has to realize that this is just not the most prosperous of times......
If you are feeling like you are underpaid,it might be best to try to get a better paying job somewhere else and move on.......that will tell you where you're at.[on a level of how desirable an employee you are.]

think on the bright side-The worst job you could have now is your bosses job.

 

I'm not really sure why this turned into a personal attack on me so let's get a couple things straight. First off for whoever made the comment that I posted it at 8am and shouldn't i be working instead of on the computer. I actually posted it at 6am I start work at 6:30...wasn't on the computer then

1. We are a small company family owned by a father and two sons. Father and one son run the day to day and parts business. The other son is shop manager and my direct supervisor. There is 3 of us in the shop other than them. Me I'm our sheet metal fabricator and body man and another guy who is our mechanic and the third is an apprentice for now who does body work and minor painting. My boss actually had to fight with his dad and brother the last time we got raises to get them for us. He is in the same boat as me too.

2. I never did any whining I was merely asking for advice and looking to see what rates were like else where for a general comparison.

3. I in no way said I was demanding X amount of dollars for a raise or knead leaving.

4. I never said I was discussing this with the new employee. He mentioned to me that he is expecting a certain amount of money come january or he had to find something else. And that he had researched what labor rates were like and what rates were like in other shops he has worked in. That was all that was said.

5. The economy has not hit this area hard. We are near Williamsport, Pa and it is the 9th fastest growing city in the country. We have tons of natural gas fields here that are now being explored and some people are becoming over night millionaires. Our economy is actually expanding. We are actually busier than we have ever been and have to much work and are falling behind. I have a year and a half back log in our metal shop alone.

6. We are a growing company just finished an expansion a year ago and have out grown that space already.

7. We have gone through 4-5 other employees in the past couple years that leave to make more money. I have stuck it out because I had no dependants and love what I do. Now I'm older getting married and talking about a family in the next year or two and am figuring out budgets to support that.

8. I don't slack off at work I bust my ass. I have stepped it up a lot in the last year and a half. And I pride myself on the quality of my work. Yes I do still learn but if you look at the work I did when I started and now there's a big difference in it. It's night and day in fact. I'm not saying I'm the best out there by anymeans. I'm still learning too. I'm thankful my shop has stuck with me and given me the chance to expand my skills. And I think the crew of guys we have is an amazing group of talent. We all have our niches and we turn out top quality work. If it's just service work or if someone wants a show car. Last car we finished the people wanted a show car. That's what they got it got it's first jr at the AACA hershey meet and scored highest in it's class. And now at this point he pretty much does say here's what needs done and let's me be. If I have a question I ask but for the most part I know the routine. Pull it in do what needs to be done and am onto the next one

9. We don't have a big benefit package. I get a weeks paid vacation. I pay my own health insurance because I can get it cheaper on my own. And we have a 401k. But that's it. As far as staying late and overtime we just don't do that. The office doesn't want us working over time. But if the need came up and we had to stay late any one of at the shop would do it no questions asked.

I did not come here asking to be insulted and thankful I have a job. Because I am thankful I have one. And the people I work for and with are great. My boss, myself and our mechanic buy cars together and fix them up on the weekend. They are more than my employers and co-workers they are my second family. And I would do anything to help anyone of them. We all have our issues sometimes but at the end of the day they are great to work for. Yes i have an idea what i would like to make but everyone is acting like im demanding them to double my salary or im going to leave. I never had any intention of leaving this company at all. All I was a trying to do is get an idea of what other shops were like and see if I was right or wrong I'm my assessment. That's it end of story. Instead I get attacked. I understand I'm lucky to have a job and steady work for a growing company. It's a tough thin to find now days. And I hope to work for them for the next 15-20 years.

 

You oviously haven't run a buisness and particularly in this economy. Your attitude qualifies you as the last guy I'd have working for me.
Yeah, we raised the shop rate but still make less now the a couple years ago, I can't raise my rates anymore and stay competitive yet the overhead keeps on climbing. We don't have employees but if I did it would be tuff to give raises when it would mean I make even less then I do now. I'd have to close up shop then there would be NO jobs here.
To the op. Talk to your boss, you can ask him if there are any raises in the future but be very careful demanding one, that could send you out the door. And yes, I'm going to say it, your lucky to have a job, you haven't seen his books, he might well be on the edge allready.
I can't speak for all employers but I've had hundreds of guys work for me over the years, I don't ever remember a good, productive employee ask for a raise, they didn't have too. I realized a good employee and would give them the raise before they had to ask, I wanted to be sure they were happy, it's good buisness. On the other hand it seemed the biggest slackers were the first one coming to me wanting raises.