So we're building this old hot rod. I keeping with the spirit of old hot rods we've been kicking around the idea of lead vs bondo. I think we'd like to give lead a shot. but due to the fun side effects of lead and the fact that kids are often found and encouraged to play in the garage. I think we'd like to know if there is some product that works like lead, goes on like lead but doesn't have the nastiness associated with it like real lead. We have never done lead bodywork. I've done brazing / soldering and bondo work on other projects. So the Idea here is to learn a new "Skill" and keep true to the time-period of the car. Thanks, Bruce
Never tried it but eastwood sells lead free body solder. Maybe worth a shot. I'm sure others will chime in and give their opinions.
The only thing I can think of off hand is the "Ground Metal " Body fillers that are manufactured . They have they're own problems in that you need to put that product on in thin coats . Sanding that product or filing for that matter is way harder than the Talcum powder based Plastic auto body fillers . scrubba
Lead is awesome. I use it all the time. My 53 has exclusively lead in the chop. If your area is well ventilated and you clean up the mess after filing you should be fine. Well worth the time it takes to learn.
If you were doing lead 6 hrs a day 5 days a week and for 20 yrs without a mask and picking up the shavings to sprinkle on your cornflakes i would say there will be a problem, but an occasional/one timer is not going to kill you or make you sick. Just be sure to wear a mask and pick up after yourself often. Bondo is just as harmful to your lungs as lead , it just doesnt show up on the X-rays
I agree, after 30 years in a body shop working with lead, I have no health problems that are directly related to using lead. Like he wrote, use safety gear and clean up after yourself. Dave.
I really believe that the hype about lead is a bit overblown. First, when working it, you don't overheat it, you get it just hot enough to be bonded to the panel, and then stay 'plastic' and workable. You're not vaporizing it into the air. Next, ALL proponents of leadwork, use a vixen file to shave, not sand, not grind, the excess lead off and shape it to form. Again, it doesn't get into the air...it's big shavings that come off! And you never sand or grind leadwork. Just vixen it, clean it, and primer it. No need to worry about getting lead dust in the air, your lungs, or small enough particles on your skin, to worry about. Some contact with large pieces won't kill you! Unless shot out of a gun! I'm usually a stickler for safety, especially painting, but lead work does not faze me.
Here is a discussion on the difference between 50/50 lead and lead free solder. http://www.johnsonmfg.com/temp/Papers/RCI3307.pdf It covers cost and equipment issues. There are some good pictures showing penetration, surface tension and weathering. Remember tin is harder than lead when you start to file. I agree with others. As long as you use reasonable precautions you and your kids will be safe. If you are really concerned, sweep carefully (do not flip bristles throwing dust into the air) and wipe with a damp mop or cloth. Do not use a vacuum.
This old boy has been doing it with lead for years and he is still alive. This is a pretty good video to watch to get a grasp of the whole process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_85fp1avs&feature=fvwrel
I think the hype about lead is overdone, I have been using lead based solder almost daily for 20 plus years in building model trains from brass stock and seem to have no problems that can be traced to lead. It is about like the fairly recently developed rabid fear of mercury. Recently in Las Vegas, they paniced , tore up and all but destroyed a persons house because his son brought a very small amount of mercury in the house , about the amount found in a few mercury activated switches. I remember when in the early 50's the science teacher brought some mercury into class and put a small amount in all the students palms and had us play with it, breaking it into little drops then watching it roll around and go back into big glob, had us rub it on pennies and see them turn shinyand silver colored. In the early 70's the BLM had a large auditorium size model of the system of dams on the Colorado river at the visitor center at Hoover Dam, they had a flowing model of the Colorado running thru the display. Water does not scale down very well so the "water" was mimiced by pumping many gallons or pounds of mercury around thru the model !! No one then seemed concerned about poisioning thousands of tourists every day! Far as I know no one ever suffered any ill effects from the several times daily. show
Tinning with mercury was the best way to prep for body solder but the mercury based tinning paste hasn't been available for years. The mercury was what would mess you up worse than the lead. All heavy metals and the vapors made while melting them will eventually mess a persons central nervous system up but as was mentioned a small amount of insurance in the form of a respirator will halt that problem or even just good ventalation. When I was a kid, I always figured the plumber would keel over from the cigarettes he smoked faster than from any vapors he might have breathed. Then there is Wild Bill Hines with a cigar in his mouth still tinning & daubing the lead. Go figure!
I've been filing out my leadwork in my spare bedroom because it's been f'ing cold in my shop..... The shit is harmless, dont buy into the bullshit hype about it
As Always I'm amazed by the wealth of information here on the HAMB! I've been using lead based solder for electronics for years (some times 8-10 hours a day)... So I was less worried about me and more about the younglings. But with some simple safety precautions it sounds safe enough to me So Off to the net I go to order some supplies and give it a shot. Thanks Again. Bruce
I often work with lead and when you vixen file it the shavings are so heavy they drop off, that part of the process is much cleaner and safer than body filler like bondo. At some point you will be sanding it, that is when you need to be as cautious as you would with regular body filler. Leading is all about the metal preparation. If you have never done it then practice on some nice clean sheet metal before you try to put it on your car. The best place to get your basic supplies is Johnsons', after that you buy any form of lead at yard sales, swap meets etcetc because it is expensive. $16 a lb comes to mind. You don't get much lead in a lb - 4 little slimjim sized sticks i think (been a while since i bought some, i can easily be wrong).
I have worked with lead for the last thirty odd years. Take sensible precautions and you will not have any problems. Don't use power tools such as sanders (you don't need to anyway) The danger from lead is from ingestion so make sure you wash your hands and sweep up. I show a little lead loading on my youtube footage. David
I've got a customer that still flys the old Bell 47G-2 aircraft with the Parsons wood main rotor blades. The blade bodies a mostly hardwood birch spar with a softer balsa wood trailing edge then they are covered with a laquered fiberglass cloth and topped with a stainless steel leading edge abrasion strip cap. My customer doesn't try to hit stuff with the blades but now and then either he or one of his pilot empoyees will pick up a cardboard box or a plastic jug or what have you and it will ding the leading edge cap pretty well. They aren't made to chop stuff just move air. It's standard procedure to fill the dents with lead as long as they are within limitations set by Bell and Parsons. The process won't hurt the wood or fabric since it doesn't get hot enough. The filler will last untill the blades need a complete overhaul from deterioration of the leading edge & fiberglass cover, excesive cracks or checks in the wood butt of the blade, or any other damage or deterioration that renders them unserviceable. The first time I saw the lead filler on there I had to go and look at the repair manual since I wasn't accustomed to wood blades or lead body filler on leading edges but all the info was right there in the manual. They allow filling of pretty fair size dents holes & cracks then you file it smooth with a Vixen file just like on the auto body stuff. The call out 50/50 tin/lead for the repairs. The stuff needed to do the job is getting harder to find as time goes by and some items have to be substituted. The tinning solutions for the stainless steel and the carbon tetrachloride they call out are on the EPA lists for sure.
Sometimes, depending on location, you can get rid of the leaded seam altogether, as in this quarter installation: Now before tacking the quarter in place, one of the modifications I had planned was to eliminate the pinch welded flanges in the back end, to try and eliminate some of those moisture/dirt traps that causes rust to begin with. The flanges on the old were trimmed to the corners, and the new quarter was trimmed with 1/8" extra. This was flattened out to fill the gap you normally see when the leaded seam is removed, and should fit up nicely for a butt welded seam. The flanged areas for the leaded seams were flattened in an attempt to eliminate the need for lead, we'd go with butt welds instead:
http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/solder3070.htm $7.80 and they have sales, and ship it in a 'if it fits it ships box'
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