Projects Mid-fifties Plymouth SCCA Build Questions

Hey HAMBers, I'm gearing up to start a build on a 1955 Plymouth Savoy/Belvedere/Plaza platform. The car is currently 3000 miles away, but working out the logistics of getting it here on the Right coast.

What I'm wondering is how feasible my plans are as far as parts availability and tech information. The car is a wagon and my plan for it is to make a SCCA/road course/autocross car. My goal is to be unique, while sticking to my Mopar (and Ford, of course) loyalties. I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to find another 1955 Plymouth wagon at an autocross or SCCA event. I'm tired of going to an event and seeing Porsche, Vette, Porsche, Vette, Porsche, etc.

To cut to the chase:

Q: How many guys on this forum are knowledgeable enough on this platform to help me work through issues as the build progresses? This is fairly important to me, because, even as a lurker, I've come to value the opinions and technical skillset of the members on here.

Q: How readily available are restoration (NOS/repro) parts for this platform? I work closely with a local Mopar guru who is extremely knowledgeable, especially with autocross tech, but finding usable parts can be an issue.

Thanks very much guys. Any and all help is appreciated.

Chris

 

isn't a wagon a bad choice because of the high center of gravity cause by the weight of all the glass

 

In stock class with stock running gear it will be slow and hard to drive in small area auto-x's, if you modify the chassis and running gear to runs decent times you will be in street prepared or worse. Then you will have to install all of the safety equipment need per the rules. Then you still will be very heavy and non competitive. Not trying to discourage you but with 40 years of road racing, auto-xing, and road road rallys experience tells me you need light and nimble cars. Ford had the Super Falcon program in the early 60's and you might want to look into that. Also Studebaker race prepared Larks for Road racing in the early 60's, Chevy had the Corvairs.

Good luck with your project and post your build.

 

I'm an SCCA racer as well. I've done lots of stuff and I think your project sounds great. In my mind you can make the car quite fun. Agreed that it wouldn't be a great Auto-x car but the one AX event I did it was in my '82 D150 pickup that I had modified. It also rained a bit at the event and I got a round of applause after my first run. I was running in the class that includes Camaros and Mustangs etc. Good fun.

But my real experience is in road racing including designing and building cars for production, GT and sportsracer classes. Your car has no issues that would preclude it being a good circuit toy. I envision a build that probably sends this project to the Dogfight forum as it would be non-traditional as far as suspension goes but there is a lot of that on here anyway.

Either way, I hope you continue on with this and have a blast.

 

Thanks for the replies guys! I agree with the idea that the car will more than likely not be the most nimble, revolutionary track terror by virtue of the body style alone. My goal is not to change the world with the car, my goal is to deviate from the norm and still be as competitive as possible while being a crowd pleaser. I won't have an idea of how wild I can get with the suspension geometry until I get the car to my shop. As far as the center of gravity is concerned, that will be a real issue that can hopefully be mitigated by a combination of chassis tuning and ride height.

Now that I know you guys are extremely knowledgeable, any input on the parts availability aspect?

 

My wagon will never be a racer not even close but with the Mustang II rack and pinion 2" drop spindles 4 link out back swaybars adjustable coil overs and disc on all 4 subframe connectors and so on I may not win but I will have fun and to me that is what it is about.With that being said I say go for it enjoy yourself and just have fun but be safe

 

If you're going to be spending a lot of time and money modifying this car for racing, you might reconsider starting with a wagon. By the time you're done, the cost difference between the wagon and a similar sedan will probably be insignificant compared to the amount of time and money you have in mods. It could be that the most cost effective mod you could do would be to start with a sedan in the first place.
I don't mean to throw any cold water on the project as I like the idea, but I've set up a few AutoXers in my day and I know how the cost of marginal improvements in performance add up.

 

What mynode said is true with all the time and money you will have to spend on the wagon you could start with something that everybody else has and may even win but at the end of the day how many people will say did you see that.If a 55 wagon was in the race I know a lot of people will say did you see that 55 that thing rocked!

 

I agree with what KMA said, check out the Dogfight Forum...

As far as it being a wagon, I dont see much of a problem there.

There have been some very succesfull wagon racecars in British clubracing ( Mini's, Mk1 Escorts, etc ) , and a factory backed Volvo team in the '80s or 90s.

There are some aerodynamic advantages ( Kamm effect ), and the extra weight bias on the rear wheels can be helpfull too.

As a trackday toy ( where you dont have to follow a lot of rules, other than safety related ones ) it could be a fun car...

 

What engine? Poly V8? Might check out the hot rodding section of www.forwardlook.net plus, have you used search here for upgrade Threads?

 

I'm still on the fence about the engine and trans. I'd love to do a poly, early Hemi, or a long ram. I just don't know if I'll be able to make the power with those motors that I'd need to move the beast and be competitive. There will likely be 600 horsepower cars on the track at the same time as me. I want to be a crowd pleaser, but I don't want to get humiliated in the process. It'd be so easy to drop a Mopar small block stroker and a well built 904 or 727 and go have a blast, but that wouldn't exactly be HAMB-friendly. Open to suggestions...

I also can't seem to find this "dogfight forum" you guys are referring to. Link me?

 

http://www.dogfightmag.com/forum/

 

Thanks!

This would be the shit, wouldn't it? 413 Wedge V8 long ram...

 

I'd be more inclined to build it up like rally car, essentially a Mexican Road racer clone from the 50's. You might also think of doing a "pre-runner" or team chase car. Or moonshine cars. Gary

http://panamrace.com/

PS The Walkenshaw Volvo wagons were so successful, they changed the rules on it, effectively banning wagon floggin'.

 

You sure as hell wouldn't have to worry about seeing another one there. Good luck with the project. ~sololobo~

 

Hmmm..HAMB friendly engine that might be competitive...besides the BB Chr, a 62-6 318 Poly can be stroked & bored out, & depending on how much boring you are comfortable with, to 349-402. A number of Threads on building one up.

 

cool idea...give it a try and see. My first though was tube frame, full on NASCAR sytle chassis and drop the body on that, but I think you're looking for a simpler way. First thing I'd do is set a budget and stick to it. Accept that you're fighting a steep uphill battle and then when the itch for a win gets so bad get a car that's naturally more competitive. If all else fails, you could go drag racing. I've had my ass handed to me by a few wagons on the strip.

 

I'd love to make it a rally style car, but living in NY it would be a massive amount of travel to make it to any real road rallies. With my career and a new home, it just wouldn't be feasible right now. I could build the car in the rally style and then use it as a cruiser and run things like Hot Rod Power Tour, though. Hmmm... Thanks Gary!

Thanks man, unique is the word here.

Good info! I'm leaning toward a BB Chrysler at this point. I guess it depends on what pops up when it's time to find a motor/trans.

Yeah, my budget will not allow for all of the tube chassis tech. I agree that I'll be fighting against logic with this build as well. I have a pretty hectic career, a new home that needs tons of work, a wedding in 2013, and a few other non-HAMB friendly toys (pre-72 muscle cars), so money is and always will be an issue.

 

The wagon is not a light weight so you will need lots-o-grunt to throw it around. I suggest a 400 + ½" stroker and Eddy heads. There are many build threads at Moparts.com with streetable engines making easy 500 hp.

Suspension will be an issue as you will want something that corners better than what 1955 offered; look into a Jag IFS install.

Used sheetmetal seems to be available from the usual sources: classifieds and lots of phone calls. Be sure to post your needs so we can offer what we have or know of.

.

 

20 years ago I built and rallied a replica of the 1964 Monte Carlo Valiants. I used a 360, 4speed, 3.23 limited slip 8.25 axle. Big block torsion bars and station wagon springs. Volare spindles and disc brakes. It worked great and was a ball to drive. 10 years ago I used a complete Volare/Aspen/Diplomat front suspension/brake/steering system in my '53 Stude, which also worked great. You'd have to measure to see if that system would be too wide for your '55. If not, it's a cheap and reliable way to go, and gives you the adjustability of torsion bars as well as big brakes.

 

Never heard what your skill level is. I would say a front subframe swap maybe a truck arm rear . How about a Viper V10 and 10 stromburg carbs

 

I agree. I think a 360 based 408 with aluminum heads would get the job done very well. A well-built 440 can sneeze and make 500 horsepower. Again, not HAMB-friendly options though.

The car itself is a California native, so it SEEMS to need only front floors. I wouldnt be surprised to find more rust when it's torn down though. Right now, I'm on the hunt for a complete set of trim for the car.

I have a similar driveline in my non-HAMB-friendly '67 Fastback Barracuda. I love the car and the motor/trans combo, but I think this car will need a stroked small block or a big block to move it. It's a pig for sure.

My skill level? It ain't my first rodeo, but I'm not a professional. I won't be doing any work outside my skill set. The Viper V10 and 10 stromburgs sounds easy, practical and cheap.

 

Still waiting on negotiating final sale and shipment to NY. I'm turning wrenches in my head at least...

 

QLC---Any updates? As a NYer and a 55 Plymouth Suburban owner I am following your post with interest. Though my 55 is built for the street and has a 50's look to it, I am running a 340 with a 727 and 8 3/4. All are easy swaps. I am also running disks on the front and a rack & pinion (Cavalier). Mine has new springs all the way around fron Eaton that lower the car 2 inches. It handles fine on the road but I do not plan on trying the autocross thing! Keep us posted on the progress and pictures when you can. Also - any ideas where you would run?

lc

 

I agree with using a 400 based stroker with eddy or indy heads to make the 600 plus horse you are looking for - stone axe reliable too. You can make a big block mopar pretty traditional too - what better than a cross ram and a pair of AFB's (the short runner version would work pretty well I think)

 

or, you could build an RB with one of these on it from A&A



and make it look like this

 

Those are beautiful!!!!!!

.

 

No updates as of yet, it's sitting in the owner's garage while he waits to hear about a full set of trim for the car and whenever he gets around to sending me some more detailed pics of the interior. I'll probably try to run the car at Pocono if I can. Thanks for the interest! Got any pics of your '55 Suburban to share? I'd love to see it.

Those are all great options! I'm sticking with my original plan for a long ram set up. I have the options of doing a 361, 383, 413, 426, or 440. Hmm...

Also, can any of you guys speak to the weight difference between an aluminum headed big block and an aluminum headed small block? The weight distribution in this car might be FUBAR as it is, I'd like to keep as much weight off the nose of the car as possible.

 

Maybe I can make a "Golden Lion" 413 Wagon that time forgot? And... then road race/rally it?

 

Been reading up here:

http://www.chrysler300club.com/uniq/allaboutrams/allaboutrams.html

These parts are going to be very difficult (read: pricey) to find.