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Art & Inspiration Sign painters vs pinstripers in a cage match to the death....

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    Are most sign painters pinstripers and vice versa? I had Dan Barnett letter the Fly back in 2002, but haven't had anything done since. He has since moved on to tattooing, so.......

    I was just planning a project I am working on and need a vintage styled sign painter. I don't even know where to start these days. The era I am after is prewar 1930's.


    I would think this may be an area of speciality.

    Thanks,

    Root
     
  2. I think not.
    The processes are the same as far as knowledge of paints, mixing, and brush care. Many stripers lack the knowledge of fonts and brush control needed for the different alphabets. Both require the ability to design, but signwriting requires much more in the way of layout, design and style.
    Sign writing also has so many variables such as lettering on glass, walls, wood, metal. Billboard painters had to also know how to exaggerate graphics to be more legible and visual from a distance.
     
  3. Ranunculous
    Joined: Nov 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,465

    Ranunculous
    Member

    This is gonna be interesting...
     
  4. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    Unfortunately, I think that sign painting may be a dying art.....
     

  5. I sold sign painting supplys for almost 40 years and back in the heyday there were probably 12 first class sign painters and the was one elderly Jewish Man,,Mr. Freedman that wore a suit when he did signs and he was the only man in this town that pinstriped.

    The gentleman was amazing,,both in his work and his appearance. HRP
     
    41rodderz likes this.
  6. I've known many pinstripers and sign painters who could do both but they are like me form the old school. On the flipside, the guys who were strictly dealer stripers around these parts cannot sign their names without using a silkscreen. I knew many sign painters here in Texas who could paint the bes signs you ever seen but had no idea how to lay down lines.

    I learned to do both early on in case one wasn't making coin. Dad always said "never put all your brushes in one can of paint." But the pinstriping is where I live, eat and die.
     
  7. dad-bud
    Joined: Aug 22, 2009
    Posts: 3,884

    dad-bud
    Member

    This sounded so promising - a cage match ....... and to the death was promised.
    Was the plan to have a 'brush-off'?
    I think not, sir!
    Boy, am I deflated now.
    Ho hum.
     
  8. Abomb
    Joined: Oct 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,659

    Abomb
    Member

    Vinyl killed off the art of sign painting. There's a guy up here in NW Kansas that has been in the sign business since the early 70's, his cans of Oneshot are pretty dusty these days. In about 1983 he lettered and painted some door art on my Dad's shop truck, and it fascinated me, he painted my name on my racing helmet while he was at it. About 18 years later, I had him stripe my new Harley, and he was pretty rusty with a brush, but he gave me my first brush and can on Oneshot, and to this day I still love painting. I stop by his shop every so often to visit, and most of the time, he's cutting vinyl. If you ever go through the town of Bird City KS, you can't miss his place, It's called "The Hot Brush"....
     
  9. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Rex_A_Lott
    Member

    A lot of it is a gift, like playing a musical instrument.
    But of course you can practice and get a lot better in time. I've done a little of both, not as a profession but as a hobby on my own stuff.Its not nearly as easy as it looks.
    You can "cheat" the layout , colors etc of a sign a lot more with some of the computer programs out there now.
    To me its much harder to laydown the pinstripes consistently, mistakes are much more evident.
    I'm sure there will be some disagreement on this one.:)
     
  10. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    I'm sure I can get it done cheaper in vinyl etc. but, I just love the tradition behind the art. Call me sentimental.....
     
    41rodderz likes this.
  11. All sign painters are stripers but not all stripers are sign painters.

    Back in 1964 BC (before computer) while taking a battery of aptitude tests to qualify for a union apprentice program, a counselor asked what trade I was attempting to enter. I answered, "Sign painting". She suggested I reconsider my options since I would be the last generation of sign painters. How prophetic. Sign making computers were about 20 years in the future and a decade beyond that saw very few sign painters still earning a living by paint alone. One can still find true sign painters if you look hard enough and there seems to be a rekindled interest in learning the craft these days.
     
  12. C.R.Glow Neon
    Joined: Jul 16, 2009
    Posts: 221

    C.R.Glow Neon
    Member
    from stockton

    this sounds like my trade of NEON SIGNS, a dieing trade that is still needed today and beyond. RD
     
  13. SUHRsc
    Joined: Sep 27, 2005
    Posts: 5,093

    SUHRsc
    Member

    Wish you were closer to PA, Roothawg ... I'm doing my best to study and learn the old ways of sign painting... and 30's-40's style is my favorite....

    If you need help coming up with ideas or anything... let me know... I'd be happy to help on designs and layout if you needed....

    in any case.... good luck!
    Zach
     
    Tim likes this.
  14. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,021

    chaddilac
    Member

    Ron Meyers or Lil' Toot out of the tulsa area is pretty close to you!
     
  15. flathead okie
    Joined: May 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,480

    flathead okie
    Member

    Damn Chad you beat me to it. Yep either one probably could do it.
     
  16. SniffnPaint
    Joined: May 22, 2008
    Posts: 434

    SniffnPaint
    Member

    I have been striping for about 6 years, I do no like lettering. I was debating going to the Butera School of Art but, as described in the Sign Painting curriculum, painting the alphabet over and over for 10 months was not worth it to me considering the dying industry. Its a great skill, cant take that away from sign painters. My hand writing is even barely legible. I never had a chance, lol.
     
  17. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    Does Ron do lettering though? I have seen his striping, which is very good btw.

    Thanks for the offer suhr, I may be calling.
     
  18. derbydad276
    Joined: May 29, 2011
    Posts: 1,336

    derbydad276
    Member

    one of my neighbors was a sign painter in a union shop when asked if he did pin striping on the side he said why??? after slinging a brush 8 to 10 hours at "work" the last thing I wanna do is come home and do it

    but thanks for bringing up a memory of a real nice guy

    if your in detroit for AutoRama check out the (panel jam) its a fund raiser for leader dogs for the blind
     

  19. If Myers doesn't, he will know who does.

    Or

    Find out if Fred Self (OKC) is still working.
     
  20. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    I met Fred after you had mentioned his name to me a LONG time ago. I forgot about him......
     
  21. Fred's Sign Co



    (405) 235-8696
    522 N Classen Blvd, Oklahoma City, OK 73106
     
  22. rollie
    Joined: Feb 7, 2005
    Posts: 552

    rollie
    Member

     
  23. Sinister
    Joined: Jan 19, 2004
    Posts: 710

    Sinister
    Member
    from Oregon

    My uncle was a commercial artist for almost 70 years. I started training with him at age 14, and by 16 I was hand lettering signs right next to him. Due to family conflict I chose a different career path and spent 20 years in the steel industry.
    I'm planning on buying a house this next year and if I can score one with a shop/garage I plan on starting a sign painting company. It is a lost art, but it's how I was trained and plan on continuing it as a tribute to him.

    Once an artist, always an artist.
     
  24. Acme Speed Shop
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 1,755

    Acme Speed Shop
    MODERATOR
    from so cal

    I am a sign guy and have owned my company SignSource for 28 years. I'm a sign painter by trade but can't stripe to save my life. I know many stripers that don't know how to letter too. In my opinion they are two separate skills and knowing one doesn't make you good at the other.

    I really don't letter much nowadays except a few personal projects. We fabricate signs now. Check us out at signsource.com.
     
  25. One more thought. As a kid, I started striping and got good pretty good at it and thought I would try sign painting. I found out real quick that I didn't know squat about being a sign painter. I then apprenticed with some of the best and found a trade that I could go anywhere in the country and get journeyman wage. All I had to do was go in and show the sign shop owner five alphabets that I could do and I was hired.
    Block, Script, Roman, Slant, Show card style, were my specialties.
    Ask a striper to do those five basic alphabets and you will quickly see if they are a signwriter.
     
  26. Gator
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,016

    Gator
    Member

    I hate doing lettering... Maybe because I'm so slow at it anymore. I make twice the money in half the time striping.

    I was actually working as a signpainters apprentice and getting pretty proficient at many years ago, but that was about the same time vinyl lettering hit the scene big - and nobody wanted to pay for hand lettering.

    Artwork on the other hand, I LOVE doing.
     
  27. metal man
    Joined: Dec 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,955

    metal man
    Member

    Dan Shaw is the man around these parts, he's in Cincinnati. I guess that's a little far for you, but damn he's good.
     
  28. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,368

    brandon
    Member

    A true sign guy has a more structured, to use that term, way about lettering....i tried to get a couple sign guy to let me apprentice under them...both said same thing....your not doing the kind of stuff we do....lol

    That being said...there are a lot of stripers who can letter. Race car guys usually are waaay more looser with their styling and application ...i know i am....lol
     
  29. The looser style of racers and stripers are because the script and slant styles were the easiest to master. Professional sign men had to live in the real world of businesses, banks. lawyers, who wanted lettering that was classy, elegant, and and showed their stability and status in the world.
    Thoise were different times.
     
  30. I would have to side with Rollie on this one although I do know a lot of sign artists who are very proficient at pinstriping as well.
    Also there are many facets of both trades.There are those who specialize in carved signs;neon;hand-lettered signs and vehicles;gold leaf;both window and regular. Stripers might include those who specialize in designs;straight lines;graphics;and gold leaf. It is truly rare to find one person who is capable of doing all of these to a professional degree although there are those who will do several well.And we haven't taken into account those who are proficient in airbrushing.
    I started out primarily as a pinstriper doing designs.Along the way I started to learn to letter as people who wanted stripes also wanted names lettered on their cars or initials and monograms. Going to work for a dealer I started perfecting long side stripes as that was in vogue at the time.
    Also people started requesting signs for their show cars and that became another facet of the business.
    I didn't mind doing small signs but was uncomfortable with doing larger work.If a friend wanted a larger sign made I would usually tackle it but I didn't want it to be known that I did these so I would sign them,"Acme Sign Co." which became kind of a running joke.
    Someone asked me to put ny autograph on a job I had finished for them so I signed it,"Otto Graf" and I used that for awhile as a joke.
    A lot of my work since my retirement is doing repairs on stripes others have done for various body shops although motorcycles are coming on again now that the winter is upon us.And the show car season is here so that will start up as well.
    Just finished a How-To on antiquing lettering that will be a part of our revised book on striping that the Motor City Auto Art Mavens sell during the Detroit Autorama.(shameless commercial plug).
     

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