Projects Gasser on Maui..... but it's just another '55

The Holley carbs had 73 jets front and back, left 'em for now, but had 10.5 PV's, cut em back to 6.5's in front and 4.5's in back. Started right up and seems to be running much better. Will hook up the Innovate and see what the A/F is running.

Just cruising around I sometimes see the vacuum down to 10 or 9, most of the time around 15, so don't need PV's opening up and dumping additional fuel when just cruising around. So far so good, I drove it home from the shop, about 15 miles of back road mostly, 2nd and 3rd gear stuff.

 

Am jacking the rear end up to pull the 3rd member and change the gears from 3.50 to 3.00, and check out the Detroit Locker, as it seems to have a helluva lot of slack in it, more than I think it should, plus when I drained the oil (still the original oil from the first install with the new Currie 9+) there seemed to be a lot more metal in it than I thought there should be. So gonna check it out.

I had bought a used, bare Mosier 9" housing with 35 spline axles, narrowed the housing to fit the gasser with 12" rims in back (minitub job w/ coilovers, ladder bars, panhard), then added the new third member and narrowed/resplined the axles to fit. Used heavy duty 9" axle truck drum brakes.

More later....
Willy

 

Are you using the old style Detroit Locker or the new air locker type? I had the old style in my '33 for a few years and drove me crazy with the clunks and clanks, but sure held up well. I changed it to an Auburn limited slip some time ago and much happier with it now. I thought I might have got a look at your car down at Peggy Sue's last weekend, but didn't see you there.

 

Yeah, didn't make it. That Fri nite we noticed a puddle of oil under the rear diff at our regular "Fender Fri" beer and bbq session, I pulled the plug and drained the oil to see how much had been lost, not much, but as long as it was leaking (around the front, the 3rd member bolts had loosened up slightly, just enough to cause a leak), we decided to pull the 3rd member so I could change the gear set. It is a Detroit Locker, yeah it can be a bit unpredictable, but nearly unbreakable, I've broken too many rear ends before switching to the Detroit! I have 'em in 3 rigs now and you sorta get used to 'em!

A friend runs an air locker and loves it, would like to try that someday....

 

The 3.30 low gear ratio in the Doug Nash trans seems to be well suited to the new 3.0 diff gear I just put in the 9", it feels good out on the road.

Went to the track yesterday, got in four pretty good runs at Test&Tune, but it's still not hooking up very good, lot of tire spin, and must not be making the horsepower I wanted, as only getting 12.6's out if it.

Did interior vids of each run, they are grouped together in the six minute Youtube vid below. It's an "unlisted" vid file, but you can access it with the url below.

The clutch was starting to slip on the second run on the shifts, you can see it in the vid, so didn't hit the shifts so hard with the throttle on the 3dr and 4th runs and it didn't slip as much if at all. But on the 5th run the clutch let go in the wet box during the burnout, so had to take it home!

Now I get to take it apart, one more time!!!
Aloha,
Willy

LINK to YouTube vid at the track...

 

Great video! Sounds awesome!

 

What is the mile per hour on the runs? What clutch assembly are you running?

 

Clutch is the Centerforce DFX ceramic setup:



I haven't raced a stick shift car since I had my '63 Vette 40 years ago, and that was a 340hp/327, M21, 4.11's, posi......

Yeah, I really don't know the best way to run/shift that car with that DN 4+1 tranny....

If I try to power shift it, you think it will take it? I really don't want to destroy it trying to get the best time, as I want to keep it streetable for a long time!

I tried to pull on the shifter once out on the street while under power just to see what it would do and it felt locked into gear while under power. So I suppose I would need to quickly back off the throttle while pulling the shifter then hit it again? Have been reluctant to try that!

Am launching at 2,000 to try to keep the tire slippage down, and have the rev limiter set at 5600 and have been trying to shift at 5500. Know I "nudged" the rev limiter slightly a few times. The cam is set to make most power from 2500 to 5500, and I upped the boost on the 6-71 that morning with a pulley change to 7 lbs boost (38:34 tooth), and put in 3 gallons of C16 (117 octane) to 15 gallons of 92 pump gas. First run was at 32 deg total advance, second was at 34 deg, third and fourth was at 36 deg, it felt like it picked up power each time, but I was afraid to go beyond 36 deg total advance. Not quite getting to 5,000 in fourth going through the lites. Fifth not needed (yet!)...

The valve springs are only 150 lbs closed, 250 open (.506/.516 lift), with the heavier hyd. roller lifters, am thinking 6k max, but as I was just trying to get used to running hard with a stick shift again, I was trying to "creep" up on it! Wanted to get into the 11's consistently during the "T&T" session, then sign up to race in the 11.90 head's up session later that night. Didn't get there!

We have a very active 10.90 group at our track, my long term goal was to get there. They running elec. etc so it would be tough to get through very many rounds with my rude 'n crude gear jammer, but I'd love to give it a go!

One thought, if I can get the tires to hook up predictably and the clutch to stay together, and/or get the best shifting routine figgured out, is to add a small fuel cell next to my 20 gallon tank with a switch over valve, and run straight race fuel with even higher boost. The motor is pretty well built, I think it will take more boost, and swapping out the pulleys is not big deal at all, did it on Sat. just before the races when one of my buddies "loaned" me the 3 gal of C16, it's blue colored and nasty lookin' stuff! The pistons are only 8:1, and with that 7 lbs boost that puts me at about 12:1 according to the charts, so I figgured one gal to five of the race fuel would be ok at that boost level. And I think it was, the motor sounded/felt way solid on every run. At 12 lbs boost it puts me at effective 14.5:1 CR according to the charts. Definitely race fuel territory!

http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/techcharts.php

The tires I have on there are the BF Goodrich G-Force T/A, running a 315-60R15 on 12" wide rims, it fits nicely in there with the "mini-tub" job I did, and the narrowed 9" axle. Probably had too much tire pressure, drove down with 30 lbs in there and didn't drop the pressure, I know those tires like it hard compared to the true race slicks, but probably not that hard....

Didn't matter anyway, as I figured I could get into the 11's and just run 'em the way I drove 'm down there!!! Just couldn't pull it off!

The second run was the best, here's the numbers:
reaction time (.50 lite): 0.69
60 ft: 2.18
330 ft: 5.55
et @ 594': 7.84
1/8 et: 8.34
1/8 mph: 89.43
1000' et: 10.70
1000' mph: 103.33
1/4 et: 12.69
1/4 mph: 113.77

The third run was also a 12.69, but at 108 mph, clutch slipping?
The fourth run was a 13.0, but at 113 mph...

I love the way that motor sounds when making those runs though, solid, tough, just the way I imagined it when setting up the motor....

Let's pull that clutch and see what it looks like first though....
Aloha,
Willy

 

Remember that in Oct. I did 2 runs at our local Maui track and broke a u-joint, then in Nov. I did 5 more runs, then the clutch let go. Nothing nasty about the runs, mid 12's, around 114 mph max, 12" wide cheater slicks, this clutch never should look have failed like it did.

Finally pulled the Centerforce DFX clutch apart and found these toasty parts inside:

Pressure Plate Side:


Flywheel side:


Closeup of the Centerforce DFX Ceramic Clutch Puck:


The flywheel is scored and will need resurfacing or replacement:


The pressure plate got really hot, blistered the paint:

When the clutch surfaces let go, the pressure plate fingers
pushed the throwout bearing further back, and the clutch
arm outside of the pivot closer to the pressure plate shell.
That contact was relieved whenever I stepped on the clutch
pedal, but as the clutch engagement, what was left of it,
was now at the top of the pedal, the clutch arm had to
make contact with the pressure plate shell to engage the
clutch, resulting in the marks you can see here on the outer
edge of the shell. It probably also contributed to the heat
problem.

When I changed from the aluminum to the steel flywheel, I had
originally run into this problem, with the clutch arm hitting the
shell due to the thicker steel flywheel pushing the whole assembly
back. Shortening the pivot ball support 1/16" solved that problem!
(See post above somewhere in this thread....)

And scored the surface of the pressure plate, it will also
need resurfacing or replacement:


I wrote to Centerforce about this failure, so far I have not heard back from them.
I will update you all as I get more info. My advice at the present is to stay way far away from the Centerforce DFX clutch setup. They market it as a street/strip setup. This one never should have failed like it did.

I get the feeling that Centerforce uses guys like us as their R&D department!

Aloha,
Willy

 

Hi Willy,

Man, that's a wicked looking clutch alright! By the way you were driving it in the test runs on the strip, I didn't see anythng that should have caused that. I almost wonder if you were getting full release on the clutch, like maybe the freeplay not adjusted enough or maybe the throwout bearing binding on the sleeve around the input shaft. It definitely burned right up.

I run a Centre Force Dual friction in my '33 with a 5 speed and I did tear the facing off the firewall side of the clutch plate during a power shift, but I just pulled the second one out to replace a failed pilot bearing and it looked as good as new considering it's had countless runs at hard launches and full throttle shifts at 6500. I'm not familiar with your series of clutch, but if that's the best it can do, there's no use in trying another one. My '33 turns out 525 hp (at the engine) and when I was complaining about my first clutch plate, they claimed their dual friction model was more or less maxed out at 500 hp, so I'm right on the threshold. I don't run slicks as my runs are mainly on the street (sorry to say), although I have run it on the strip as well and it runs low 12's with the street tires on. (which in some ways double as clutch protection as traction is hard to come by at the initial launch). i think there are better drag clutches out there, but haven't had a lot of experience with them. Good luck with yours! Bill

 

I also had problems w/Centerforce holding & went tried Southbend & it's holding good.I just called them told them to power & what I 'm doing & they sent one that works.

 

The clutch linkage was stock '55 Chevy that was reworked by me (ok, ok, don't say anything.....) and the linkage as I set it up put the clutch engagement movement right in the middle 1/3 of the pedal travel. It had about a 1/3 travel at the top of the pedal before starting to engage the clutch fingers with the throw out bearing, the bearing was moving smoothly on the tranny nose, and had about 1/3 pedal travel at the bottom after the clutch was disengaged. I put adjustment on the link from the pedal to the Z-bar and from the Z-bar to the clutch arm so I could keep it all well centered.

When I changed from the aluminum to the steel flywheel, I found that the steel was slightly thicker and moved the whole clutch setup rearward, which I could not take out completely with linkage adjustment and get the pedal movement and feel I wanted, unless I shortened the pivot ball stand and moved the whole clutch arm rearward 1/16", which is what I did. After doing that and adjusting the linkage accordingly, then it was back where I wanted it when I initially set it up with the aluminum flywheel. It felt good out on the street, and the first couple of runs at the track felt good, then it started going down hill....

Will call the Southbend guys and see what they recommend.
Willy

 

enjoyed the video thanks for sharing. my first ride in paradise too

 

The ACT clutch was back ordered, so cancelled it and looked around some more, ordered a McLeod dual disk setup. The photo shows a diaphragm setup but the description sez it is a Long style pressure plate...





This is all new to me, so hope I am heading in the right direction!

Later....

 

The clutch arrived, it is a diaphragm type, like the photo shows. Called them, the data sheet they posted is incorrect when it said a "Long Style" pressure plate. They told me I could run the ceramic style disks also, the rest of the components are the same, and the ceramic disks are good to 1,000+ hp they claim!

Ordered a pair of the ceramic disks to use at the drag strip, will run the organic ones on the street for now. They said it is an "easy swap", yeah, right, easy for them maybe???

Photo here if you're interested:
http://www.mcleodracing.com/images_products/5494.jpg

 

I have questions in my own mind about why that clutch failed. There may have been expansion problems causing some contact with the bearing at high rpm. I did not give it up very much time to get a good break in. This new clutch is advertised as good to 1000 foot pounds. It has 50% More contact area then the last one. I measured the surfaces carefully, it is 9 5/8 inches diameter compared to 11. Measuring the actual contact area comes out 48% more. I want to try this one with proper break-in and making sure good free play at the throw out bearing. I want to give it a try and see how well I can get it to work. If I feel like there is any problem, I will switch to the full face Organic disks.

Merry Christmas to all,
Willy

 

I always use McLeod clutches. There's a guy I know that runs a McLeod twin disk behind a 540 BBC that's in the 700 HP range. No probs

 

Sure you'll have it all working great once you get back home again Willy! It was fun meeting you and your wife today!
Vall

 

Yeah, I can run either McLeod's organic full face disks or their ceramic disks in the same setup. RST (street) or RXT (strip) uses the same setup, only the disks differ. I have both now, but wii start with the RXT disks and try to be all set up, broken in, and ready to go when (if) our track opens up in Feb. I'll post some pix later. There are nine pucks on each side of the RXT disks. It's a much heavier duty lookin' setup then the Centerforce Dxf clutch.

 

Looking good!

 

Was traveling over the holidays, am back home again and working on the gasser. Feels good!

Pulled the blow bell front plate off the block, cleaned it up, and am welding on nuts where needed on the front of the plate to make it easier to put the blow bell on and off without having to reach up in there to hold the nuts in place each time I want to remove it!

Then it will be reassemble time with the new McLeod RXT ceramic twin disk clutch setup.



And I will be adding a little more room front and back in this blow bell window to allow more clutch arm adjustment/movement:



Posted some more pix on my project page (LINK)....

Aloha,
Willy

 

Another option to the standard Chevy clutch fork one from a late 60's Vette big block. It uses a pin instead of a ball. What's nice is that you can use heim rod ends with it.

http://cmc.speeddirect.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=7520%2D125&eq=&Tp=



I did the same thing in my car. clutch pedal feels good & solid. I also installed steel bushings in the Hurst Competion + shifter.. Zero play. I also beefed up the "Z" bar with gussets on the intersects. (It broke after the new clutch)


Your gonna like that McLeod

 

Thanks for the idea. I'm going to give this setup one more try, then if still problems will check it out.

I'm going back to the aluminum flywheel. It's a 1/4" thinner than the steel one, that gives me an additional 1/4" adjustment room, plus when I switched from the aluminum to the thicker steel, I shortened the pivot ball mount 1/8", so there should be plenty of adjustment room now.

Welded all the nuts that needed it to the front side of the flat plate the blow bell mounts against, got tired having to reach up there every time to hold each nut in place to put a bolt in, so got that done yesterday. Cleaned it up, and painted it, waiting for the paint to dry, should be good to go today and start putting it all together , see how the clutch arm and bearing will fit with the new clutch setup. Also got a new clutch bearing while I had it apart. The old one seems ok, but it's going in the "spares" box.



Should have it on the road by Monday if nothing else pops up along the way.

 

McLeod provided a plastic alignment tool with the twin disk clutch setup, and I carefully aligned everything on the flywheel, it's more complicated by the fact that the splines on both disks have to be aligned, then both centered on the pilot bearing, in order for the tranny input shaft to slide all the way in.

The alignment tool got the two disks aligned pretty well, but there was some flexibility in the whole thing, once I got the tip of the tool in the pilot bearing, I could wiggle it around a bit before I tightened down the bolts, clamping everything in place! I tried to center it as much as I could, but it was still basically just a guess! Clamped it down and put the bell in place with the clutch arm and bearing, and hooked up the linkage. Looking down the hole with a light it all looked lined up pretty well.

Laying on my back with that heavy Doug Nash tranny on my chest, I got it in and it was a tight fit. The splines on the input shaft needed some persuasion to go into the clutch disk splines, but it went in until it got to the pilot bearing, and wouldn't go any further, that last 1/4" or so gap between the front of the tranny and the bell surface told me where I was! Wiggled it, pushed it, rotated it, profuse profanity was used, it just would not go in that final little bit!

That told me the clutch disks were not accurately centered on the pilot bearing.

OK, take the bell off so I can realign it with that plastic tool and try again? Take all those bolts off again, some of which are quite difficult to get at with a wrench? Or wait until a buddy can come by and step on the clutch pedal for me, so that maybe I can wiggle it around enough to center it and "pop" it into the pilot bearing? I've been successful before doing it that way, so ok, let's wait, go have a beer (or six!!!).......

Pulled the tranny out and layed it aside.......

My buddy stopped by on his way home from work, I got that heavy tranny up on my chest again, and in the hole, he stepped on the clutch, which released the pressure on the two disks, I could feel them release, and tried to wiggle them around on the front of the tranny shaft, to find the pilot bearing hole, but after a lot of profanity and sweaty wrestling with that tranny, I was unsuccessful!

I think that when the throwout bearing is pressed against the clutch fingers, although the clutch disks are free to move around, the throwout bearing is pretty much immovable, pressed as hard as it is against the clutch fingers, preventing me from moving the disks enough to get alignment. Must have just got lucky when I did it that way before.

Pulled the tranny back out, looked in the hole with a light, could see that the disks were not aligned any more with each other, with the splines also out of phase. Tried to put them back close with the tool, with my buddy holding the clutch pedal down, but again, that throw out bearing was locked against the clutch fingers and wouldn't move, making it hard to try to get that tool in through both disks and aligning the splines. Just impossible. If it had a spare input shaft with the correct size and splines for this app, where I had something to grab ahold of and work with, I might have been able to get it aligned again, but that short little plastic tool just disappears in there when shoved in, no way to grab ahold of it and wrestle it around trying to align the splines, and the disks with the pilot bearing. Just no way!!!

Went and had a bunch of beer and grilled some fresh venison with my buddies, "Fender Friday at the Shop...."

Today the bell comes off and try again to align it all....

And gotta do it before 3 pm, when the Niner's game comes on....
With more beer, and we'll fire up the grill at half time....

"Not Feeling Much Aloha Today...."
(Well, that's not quite true, it's only when I think about that *%# clutch!!!)
Willy

 

I think it's time for a tranny jack Willy! I also think you need a buddy, a tranny jack, and a driveline snout to put in the tailshft of that Doug Nash! If you get it pre aligned, then start the tranny in, and if it wont go use the driveline snout to turn it while it's in 1st gear. That should get it, and if it doesn't then turning the trans while someone is pushing the clutch will probably do it. But this all requires a trans mission jack, so you're not fighting the weight while doing other operations.

 

Yeah, I got it in today, but it was a hassle....
Last Oct at the track I blew the front u-joint on the driveshaft, busted up the yoke, so have a "spare" yoke I can put in when messing around like this.

After wrestling that Nash tranny twice yesterday, and getting trashed, I could hardly get outta bed this morning. Made the 5am pot extra strong! (hey, early "plantation daze" hours die hard, I love the early am.... Fresh Black Coffee and both the Honolulu and Maui Papers at 5-ish every day....) (They deliver at 4:30 am to a box out at the road, I walk out every morning with a hot cuppa in my hand, rain or stars....)

But went back and took apart and redid everything, spun those disks in there a coupla times on the tool and yeah, kinda pushed it up a bit, just ever so slightly, as I tightened up the bolts by hand to hold it in place, then went round and round the circle, half turn at a time, pulling the pressure plate in nice and tight.

Then mounted the bell in place, 22 bolts on that buggah, then found some old bolts, long ones, cut off the heads and screwed them into the bell as dowels for the tranny, then started wrestling the tranny back in. Not so bad with the bolts to carry the weight, but it still wouldn't go past the second disk, kept cranking the tailshaft yoke back and forth (got a busted one I stick in when the tranny's outta the car), tried a coupla different gears, my buddy helping me, 4th felt pretty good, able to click it back and forth pretty firmly, but it just wouldn't go! So I finally hooked up the clutch, and with my buddy (he's a whole lot bigger, younger, and stronger than me.....) pushing on the tranny and twisting the yoke, when I stepped on the clutch pedal it popped into place, grabbing the second disk and sliding into the pilot bearing!!!!

YEAH!!!!

Now to put the rest together and check it out on the street. i'll definitely put the GoPro in and record it for youtube....

Am inside with a cold one watching the Niner's game at the moment.
There's always tomorrow...
Willy

UPDATE:
Did a vid with my camera while working on the clutch setup:
VIDEO of clutch install....

 

Can't wait to see the next ride video!

 

yeah those plastic clutch align tools suck.

my dad gave me an input shaft from an old muncie. works real good

 

Took it for a cruise yesterday.

Started the vid at Rice Park in Kula, went out through Keokea to the Sun Yet Sen Memorial Park, then back through Kula to my place in Pukalani.

Most of it is pretty boring, as there was traffic and usually a couple of cops. And the vid makes it look like I'm going a lot faster then I actually was. But did manage to open up the elec. cutouts and hit it a little a couple of times. Not too hard though, as I am supposed to be "breaking in" this clutch carefully! I cut the vid up into seven segments, probably the first is the best one. Although the third and fourth are out on a narrow winding two laner where I got it going pretty good a couple of times.

Also need to bleed the brakes, they are working great, but respond to a single pump so I know there is still some air in there somewhere....

But the clutch works fine, I like it. I did go ahead and put the ceramic disks in, just had to find out how they were. Gotta get some miles on it though, our first race of the season is coming up Feb. 8,9.........
Aloha,
Willy

http://youtu.be/L3P8LIgmFRI

http://youtu.be/2KezTj6yNOw

http://youtu.be/oXBjkxLDbN4

http://youtu.be/zx19x-JaKck

http://youtu.be/TkIUq5Az0Vk

http://youtu.be/AB3hlHBKSxQ

http://youtu.be/rRvj0c6t4pY

 

I love the fact it's Olds powered!