How to measure out, what is wrong with door opening?

Yesterday I started welding temporary supports to my '37 Chevy. As driver side center pillar is rotten off from rocker, I need these to get the body and frame separated. I welded a brace between the center door posts, measured body diagonals before and after, they were within 1-2 millimeters, so body seemed square enough.

After welding in another support between front door posts, I decided to connect them with two braces along the doors. I spot welded first, making sure it's square and true, and when I measured the location for another side, something seemed wrong - if I measured back end distance from door post and squared the brace out, the brace was closer than the other side's. Front end was spot on. I measured diagonals between longitunal brace spots and the difference was about 7-8 millimeters (slightly over 1/4").

Now the problem - driver (bad) side door rear upper corner is about 5 millimeters down compared to right side and measured from drip rail bottom. The gap is off between cowl and door too, at upper hinge it is good, at lower hinge the gap is about 2 times wider. all other gaps seem to be mostly ok. I think that the body is slightly distorted, but I could not think how to measure the distortion out and what to do next. Those braces are spot welded so it's easy to cut the welds and change the locations etc.

All ideas are welcome.

 

I read your post a bunch of times , I had a hard time understanding..the welds have more than likely shrunk and pushed or pulled your braces.. pics always help....

 

I try to take few pics later.

I am pretty sure, that welds have nothing to do with distortion - the door gaps were off before and they weren't changed after bracing.

 

sounds like you need to shim up the body mount at the rear of the cowl.
is the body on the frame? if so make sure all body bolts are tight. check fit, loosen body bolt were shim is needed, pry up, slide shim underneath and retighten all bolts. check fit, add shims if needed.

 

Well, few pics, hope that it would help to understand.
Left door upper corner gap:


Left door - gap after quarter window:



Left door, lower hinge gap:



Right door, upper corner:



Right door lower hinge gap:



Right door frame and door post gap:



Left door frame and door post gap:



I think that left cowl corner could be a little low or, the cowl sheetmetal is shrunk after too extensive heating (those older repairs at the cowl). I think I would try to find solid point to raise the cowl a little and see if it helps.

 

I had a a visually distorted body, but it was intact.
I used turnbuckles welded into pipes to create adjustable braces.
Once you start moving stuff around it moved everything else.

If you are weldind in braces they can/will pull if there is any type of gap.

 

You should be squaring the body and door openings with measurements of the body and openings themselves; NOT comparing door gaps. The fit of the hinges and doors may make you think you are seeing something that might not exist.

 

The body was probably not built exactly symetrical down to the millimeter originally. Just because one side measures something, doesn't mean the other side will be the same. I think it's more important to make each door fit it's jamb, rather than making it measure the same as the other side. As long as the side-to-side diagonals are within a half inch, you should be fine. Concentrate on the "look" of the gaps, rather than the measurements.

 

Take the latches off of the doors if you haven't already. Don't let the latch determine door gap when you close it. You probably know that.

Open the doors. All the way. How much movement can you get when lifting the door up and down?

If you can feel movement, look at the front of the door while someone else lifts / moves the door up and down. Check for hinge wear first. If no movement, check where the hinge bolts to the door. A lot of times this part of the door frame gets weak and allows too much movement. Usually means reinforcemnt of door during a rebuild of the door. More comon on early Chevy's than on Ford's.

If you see/have no movement, then something else is off.

Athough I haven't had to deal with a bad "b" pillar on one of these yet, I've found that the door frames are too thin for such a heavy door and usually have to be fixed in order to get proper door alignment. Again, usually a Chevy/Buick problem and one of the first things I look at when doing metal work on one of them.