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tube header welding question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RockHillWill, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. RockHillWill
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Posts: 34

    RockHillWill
    Member

    I am new here and may not understand exactly how to use the 'search' feature, but I am trying to find a post where a gentleman said to weld the side of the header flange towards tht motor with regular tig welding rod, but then suggested to use "________" to weld the outer edge of the flange/tube to prevent cracking.

    I am looking to know what that rod / material was.

    Thanks for any help in this matter.
     
  2. shawnspeed
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 165

    shawnspeed
    Member
    from Attica Mi

    I braze them with O/A , or a silicon bronze W/TIG....Also Mild steel headers will tend to last longer when gas welded , because the tubing is annealed when welded, and left without stress risers in the weld area like TIG / MIG welds....Shawn
     
  3. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,454

    oj
    Member

    Welcome to the hamb Will, the 'search' feature takes a while to master but it is effective. There is also a 'tech' section, if you go to the main hamb area and scroll down past classified etc near the bottom you'll find a gathering of tech features and play with the search thing there too.
    If it is used with a tig then it'd be 'silicon broze' rod. It has no 'anticracking' properties or provide a cushion - it is purely for looks. It has a lower melting point and it is easy to do those beautiful little welds with it. It has a bronzey color to it.
    To prevent cracking you have to support the exhaust system and take the weight off the weld at the header flange.
     
  4. RockHillWill
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Posts: 34

    RockHillWill
    Member

    Thanks, guys. The silicon bronze is what I remember seeing. Thanks again.

    I built Winston Cup stock cars for about 25 years in the 70's to the 90's, but did not do much tig other than spoilers and oil tanks of 1/8" thick aluminum. All the chassis welding I did was with a MIG welder.

    More recently, I have been restoring Model A's for fine point judging. We won the only two entries we made and did quite well. Well enough that there is no further to go in that arena, so I have decide to try and build an aluminum bodied roadster on a Model A frame as I have literally tons of Model A parts.

    I want to put a set of headers on a model a motor and run the exhaust down the side like a vintage race car. It will be a two seat speedster, but the passenger will sit behind the driver.

    Thanks again for your help.
     

  5. 36Brua
    Joined: Jul 31, 2007
    Posts: 87

    36Brua
    Member

  6. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,454

    oj
    Member

    Need to have some pics Will! Post 'em!
    We met at gatormeet a couple years ago, i had the zephyr pedalcar that Kerry made the buck from, remember?
    Glad to see you on the hamb, post up some pics of your new project. And, give us a tale of two of your nascar days.
     

  7. ^^^ agree with more options.


    I actually weld mine up with a wire welder and mild steel. But this is absolutely the best advice for a novice welding up a set of headers. You can achieve a lot nicer looking weld with gas aside from the annealing process than with a wire welder unless you are exceptionally well practiced at welding tubing with a MIG machine.

    I have learned to avoid brazing as in using brass to weld up exhaust, I have found that using steel brazing rod works best for me. It will hold up to the vibration better on a system that is not properly supported as is most common in our hobby.
     
  8. Dick's Beaters
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 203

    Dick's Beaters
    Member

    Hey Will,
    Coye here. We also met at that Gator Meet; I was with John Buffington "Buff" here on the HAMB. We had just gotten back from Afghanistan.

    Can't wait to see the Speedster project, especially with your background in racing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  9. Wow. Reading this has left me scratching my head a bit. Mostly about the welding process itself. I know we all have our own reasons for how we do things. The header in the photo is for my 57 Ford not that that matters. As you might guess it's not my first set. Personally I would never use Brass on exhaust, but that's just me. I feel Brass expands and contracts at a different rate than steel and therefor promotes cracking, not prevents, but that's just me. Silicone Bronze is grate stuff and flows nice at low heat. I always use a Tig with it. I'm sure there are some grate Gas Welders out there and I do a fair job with it when necessary. For me, Silicone Bronze on steel is kind of like using S.S. rod. I only would do it if Porosity was a issue I couldn't grind out and get past. I don't Gas Weld exhaust unless it's on Old Crap under a car. I think it's just for Monkey Repairs. Most Gas Welded exhaust will have a lot of fall through to the inside especially if you need to grind the exposed side of the pipe to make it look good. Fall through is a heat riser and promotes burn out and cracks. Personally I always Tig Weld all my exhaust work. I understand not all of us have a nice welder so doing the best you can with what you have is normal. I feel that Gas Welding so the pipe is annealed when done is Hocus Pocus. The second or third time the system comes up to temp it's annealed, now that's just me talking and might not be a perfect science. The secret to crack free exhaust welds particullary on headers is no build up on the weld seam. In other words as close to wall thickness as possible and a good seam to start with. I've lost track of how many custom sets of headers I've built and as of yet no weld seam failures.
    Now watch, come Monday morning I'll have 10 guys standing in line with broken weld seams wanting warranty work done.
    The Wizzard
     

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  10. shawnspeed
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 165

    shawnspeed
    Member
    from Attica Mi

    Wizzard....You built a nice set of headers there..Alot of my experience with gas welding headders is with High RPM 2 strokes...IE expansion chambers ... all most all of the commecrcially available pipes are still gas welded for the above mentioned reasons...The Bronze on the flanges came from my mentor when I was apprentacing...Ron Fornier....he mentions it in his first book as well... Now all the stainless & inconel is all TIG welded...and I do also tig weld some mild steel headers...If I am out of gas...Shawn
     
  11. I guess I mentioned gas welding for a novice because gas welding was the first thing you learned to do when i was a young man. I have gas welded many headers as well as chassis ( chrome molley) with good success. I have had few headers crack on me. I have also used bronze or brass rod on exhaust and had it crack before I knew any better.

    I do realize that in tofays world it is common for the average Bobo to have a tig welder in the garage. I don't and probably won't. They are nice for sure but at least in the forseable future out of reach for me. When I started out playing this game no one owned a TIG welder, it was just one of those things that was too expensive for a hobbiest. I guess that is in the back of my head most of the time when I am answering a question.

    Wizard,
    nice looking headers by the way.
     
  12. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    PnB, you have never been a young man...........................
     
  13. 34toddster
    Joined: Mar 28, 2006
    Posts: 1,482

    34toddster
    Member
    from Missouri

    PnB; Ouch you gonna take that from Roothawg!?
     
  14. he may have known my Ol' Man, he always said I was born old. ;)
     
  15. Ha, ha, Good one! Like most I started with only a Hammer and Crescent wrench. My Old Man had a pot bellied Lincoln welder in the corner. I learned to weld and cut with it around 19 0 something. I could tell a good story of Radieusing wheel wells on a 58 Impalla using 7018 rod and the welder wide open. It was my first Flame Job. Fortunately I evolved a little. RockHillWill mentioned Tig Rod in his first question as if he has a Tig welder and could use it. Give 10 guys the same Project and it will get done 10 different ways.
    The Wizzard
     

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