Can you have a coil AND points?

If it's spitting back out of the carb do it! Advance it. Won't hurt.

 

Probably not - is the timing wherre it was when it was running previously? If so, leave it alone. If you moved it any, try to get it back to the known good spot. As close as you can. These old motors are fairly forgiving in that regard. Do you have a 6 volt battery charger that puts out a constant voltage (even if no battery is attached)? If so, then disconnect the wire that runs from the ignition switch to the coil. Connect that coil terminal to the battery charger (+ if your car is negative ground, - if your car is positive ground). Ground the other side of the battery charger.

Now, when you crank, all of the current is going to the starter. I suspect your starter is drawing a lot (these cars drew a lot right out of the factory). Between a tired starter (dirty/worn commutator and brushes), some not-so-fresh cable connections, maybe even flaky cables, and a battery that is not 100%, there is not enough left over to run the ignition. So, to rule that out, you can either 12 volt jump or try what I just said. By running the ignition off a separate supply, you might get enough of a hotter spark for the old beast to fire. Once she is running again you will not have to repeat this. Note: you do not want the battery charger electrically hooked to the battery when you do this. You do not want the charger pulled down by the starter current. You want an independent feed. THis also works if you have another 6 volt battery.

 

I never was big on guessing about timing. It' pretty easy to set it staticly.

I'd rotate the crank until the ignition timing mark aligns (don't know about your packard, might be on the crank pulley. might be on the flywheel.

then with key on, loosen distrib clamp bolts and slowly rotate distributor opposite normal rotation until number 1 plug wire fires.

To measure points' contact surface condition, with key on and points closed I'd use a volt meter to measure voltage drop across points. I think I recall .3 volts max on a 12 volt system, so probably even less on a 6 volt system.

With the key still on and the points closed I'd disconnect the coil wire from the distributor, and hold the end 3/16 inch or so away from some bare engine or chassis metal, then open the points with a piece of plastic or a popsicle stick. That spark is the best I'm going to get. If it's weak I have some work to do on the ignition system.

 

It did Spit back from the carb once the last time I was out there!!! A decent one too! It did not seem to hurt the carb tho as it started for a sec again twice after that. That carb is PITIFUL tho, leaks from every seal! That will be rebuilt soon.

 

Didn't say you couldn't do it, said you shouldn't do it. Guy's trying to learn, no point in teaching him bad habits, that's just my 2 cents though, carry on.

 

I have not moved the distributorany, but for the two weeks I have had it it has been hard to start most of the time, I think I am going to advance it a touch but I will mark where it is now and if advancing it does not get it to start then I will put it back where it was/is. I know when the advance is right on your ride you barely turn the key and bam, it's runnin' If my motor turns over more then twice before starting (on ANYTHING) I am under the hood poking something with a wrench. I will be right back.

 

When you set your points dont use a metal feeler blade you'll short out your condensor . You wanna use a brass one.

Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app

 

No $hit!? That is the first I have heard about that! I only have metal ones, what if I remove the condenser when I mess with 'em, and put it back after they are set?

 

Damn!....How can something SO simple be SO hard! So this thing has 2 bolts that hold the distributor down I loosened them Tried to advance the distributor some and it moves like 1/4 and springs back, I don't want to force it and break something. Never head of one that has to be running to adjust, so I don't know. WTF!?

 

um brass conducts electricity, it IS metal

 

Yeah! Duh!! Good point! The rotor and inside of the cap is brass, caught me slippin' while tired, next they are gona have me out there checking my muffler bearings! lol Damn cars....If it has wheels OR tits it is gona cause you problems!

 

you should ad a few pictures and a video if you can, how are you keeping the battery up enough to keep rolling the motor over? have you tried boosting the car with 12 volts just to get it spinning faster? you set the points with the switch off so they do not have power going to them...lol

 

You got me on that one!

 

I have it on the 6V trickle charger and only disconnect it to try to start it, then hook it back up, come in check three message boards google $hit, then go back out and try something else....Fuck it, bout to smoke a joint and go check the muffler bearings....I will add pics soon.

 

when i put gas in a carb i use a spray bottle with a good mist, i feel it is more likely to be sucked into all the cylinders.

 

yeah, no doubt. I seem to have a nice sprat pattern in the carb tho.

 

Take a step back. Ignore folks who troll with statements to use brass instead of metal. (OMG!)

As Budd correctly said, you set the points with the switch off, so there is no sparking.

Points are not a precision item and a good fat gap about that of a thin dime will get the motor to run. A 6 volt trickle charger is not going to cut it. Think of it like this: that starter sucks a good 300 amps. Crank for a minute, and that is 300 amp minutes, or 5 amp hours. A trickle charger might put out 2 amps. So, neglecting any inefficiency or losses, you need to leave that connected for 2.5 hours to replace 60 seconds of cranking. My numbers are illustrative, but the example should be clear. I will bet a box of donuts that your core problem is not getting enough juice to spin the motor fast enough, long enough and with enough left over for the ignition to fire that beast.

Old flatties are funny. If they run often, they start right up. If they sit, they get balky. This is because many of the systems on these old motors were pretty marginal, compared to the cars of today. Modern cars have more forgiveness, in certain ways. Certainly in terms of cranking, what with higher voltage systems, gear reduction starters, engines with lower internal friction and EFI that has been programmed to deliver the exactly correct fuel and spark to light the motor off.

Don't chase timing or other ghosts. At least, not at this point. Get a decent charge on that battery. Or get a decent charger. Or charge the battery and hook up an extrnal 6 volt supply to the coil, as I described in a previous post. Or jump it with 12 volts.

But all the timing fooling around in the world is not going to start that motor at present course and speed, based on what we have been told.

Now you might have a timing or a carb or a whatever problem in addition. But I guar-warrantee that the prime issue right now is not enough juice.

 

I know one thing, if this car is not running by next weekend I will be selling it. I park GM's in my driveway and they run PERFECT! I won't have any rag a$$ non runners!

 

Bout to go tighten down the distributor, roll my driveway ornament back to where the runners live, and jump-start with 12v! Here goes nothin'! Be back soon.

 

Well I rolled it back, moved my truck over there for a 12V boost and while it did turn over a little faster and with more vigor, it still did the same thing: Backfired thru the carb twice, started a few times, ran poorly, and died right away. The problem is that on the car the starter comes UNDER the gas pedal so to start it you turn the key on and floor it. Sure there it a push button next to the key that has been added at some point, but the one under the pedal works too! So the only time it starts is if I floor it but when I let off enough to not be grinding the starter on a running (semi running) engine it dies. So only wants to run (barely) at WOT and backfires thru the carb, what should I check next?

 

backfiring through the carb sounds like a timing issue or plug wires on wrong or cross firing or something

 

Why does this thread make me feel so friggen OLD....

 

That's what I am thinking. I checked the firing order twice, no crossed plug wires and didn't/can't move the timing! There are two bolts (one on each side) of the distributor and I loosened both tried to turn it some to advance it and it is only the advance moving about 1/4 inch and it springs right back! I can't get the actual distributor shaft to turn any more than that and don't want to force it just in case there is some secret packard engineering behind it that I don't know about.

 

OK...take a deep breath and relax...this is supposed to be fun, right?

You've got the thing to pop and sputter. That's good! You know you're on the right track. Now, go back and start at the beginning. You've got spark. You've got fuel. These two things need to get to the cylinders on the compression stroke at the right time, or things aren't going to work. Find out where the rotor is supposed to be pointing for number one cylinder to fire. Pull the coil wire from the coil (you don't want the motor to try and start while you're doing this...could be BAD!). Pull number one's spark plug and roll the motor over to top dead center on the compression stroke, and see if the rotor is pointing where it should. If it's not, then there's your problem. You can roll the motor over a couple of ways...tapping the starter with your thumb covering the hole where the spark plug goes (you'll need another person to 'bump' the starter for this), or by rolling the motor over by hand, pushing the fan belt down to 'tighten' it and rolling the fan pulley or pulling the fan (this one can be a little painful if not done correctly...). If this seems to be the issue, which it sounds like to me, then you really need to take the previous advice and find a Motors Manual to see how to adjust the distributor.

 

OK I was an auto sparky so here goes...
You have a really old car.
If the bushes in the dizzy shaft are worn, forget about getting a good tune. period.
Plugs need to be gapped (and clean)
Leads should have no more than 8,000 Ohms per foot.
NEVER sand off the rotor button's metal part.
If you did, and it's irreplaceable, paint the top of the metal strip with nail polish (it works, OK?)
Spark coming from the coil goes to the centre of the dizzy cap.
From there, it is transferred to the rotor button via a carbon brush in the dizzy cap's centre. Is this part OK?
The spark is thrown out of the rotor button's end (MUST be a sharp, clean corner, no dull "sanded off" shitty work) to the pegs inside the cap which go to each lead.

If the rotor and cap are stuffed, it will look like lightning going everywhere inside the cap, instead of shooting to each lead as it rotates.

Your points close (dwell time) to charge up the primary side of the coil.
When they open, the coil primary field collapses, reflecting via induction a charge into the secondary winding inside the coil. This gives yo your spark.

Look up Kettering ignition principle.

A magneto is a reversing electric field, a Kettering ignition is a collapsing field.

Replace the points, replace the condenser. make sure the fly leads are in good nick too.

From there....set up the motor to top dead center on cyl # 1 on compression stroke. Set your timing from there. At that point. the rotor should be passing by cyl. 1 on the dizzy cap. Get a strobe light, and feeler gauges. Can't go wrong.

Hope this helps mate.

 

Yes, but ironically they are not pointed.

 

Wow, Packardwood! At your expense, a lot of us old grumps are getting a top notch refresher course on old school diagnostics.
I'm subscribing to this thread and keeping it for future reference.

 

I went and looked at my neighbour Karl's 52. Pic included. On his distributor 2 bolts attach the dizzy to the block and there's a clamp you loosen to advance the timing. Clamp is just below the points housing.
And don't sell it! It's big enough to live in if your house blows away!!

 

Most of us old farts have one of these in our tool boxes. (they may have to hunt for since they haven't used it in years.Notice the pocket pen like clip. It's called a screw starter. A good mechanic had one in his breast pocket all the time. The magnet on the end made it easy to retrieve the screw when the screw fell off and you had to start over again. The hardest part of the whole job of a tune up.

PS: the match striker portion of a book of matches was often used to clean a set of used points before setting the gap. The proper tool is a points file.

 

Between checking the accelerator pump, pouring in gas and shooting gas into the engine every time you try to start it, I'm thinking that maybe its flooded. Often times a badly flooded engine will run VERY poorly and die several times before it clears itself. Try pulling the plugs and spin the engine over a couple of dozen times to dry 'er out.

Bill