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Patch panel on my Model T, need help!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by PiecesofEight, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. PiecesofEight
    Joined: Jul 24, 2011
    Posts: 11

    PiecesofEight
    Member

    I've been on this fourm for about a year now. I purchased a Model T from a member back in October, and have been working on it since.
    I have but one more patch panel to make, and its a little larger than any of the others I had to do.
    One of the owners of the T welded the door shut and heated the steel too much. Ive tried metal finishing what I could out but 12" wide needs to be replace .
    The whole car has been braced but I fear cutting out such a large section will cause the body to sag or change shape.

    Any suggestions on how to handle this?


    [​IMG]
     
  2. I'll go out on a limb here and say it look's like you have other issues there also. It appears the piece spanning what should be the door opening was not a door to start with. The top of the windshield header looks to be quite a bit lower than the top of the B post. Judging from what I can see I doubt I would start by cutting up the Quarter panel. I believe your Cowel to rear body section is out of Whack. You might want to do an X measuerment from inside the body of the door jambs. My advise would be to remove the sheet metal spanning the door opening and pitch them. Repair the quarter if still needed and find yourself a pair of doors.
    The Wizzard
     
  3. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    You were talkin' about choppin' the roof, is that still on the table? Is the Shotgun side door welded shut too? I'd start by figgerin out your chop height, figger out what you'll do for opening doors, align & brace your door openings with an eye towards perfect shut lines. With the body correctly braced, side to side & diagonally, the removal of the 12'' section from the Lt. Quarter shouldn't be a biggie!

    " Do not reach greedily for the Kool-Aid "
     
  4. rond
    Joined: Aug 8, 2009
    Posts: 39

    rond
    Member

    The Wizzard is partially right. The panel above the windshield is correct, but you do not have any doors, just panels welded in place of them. Do you plan to use doors? If so that is the place to start. Remove those panels, be sure that whatever doors you plan to use fit correctly, then do the quarters. If you plan to make doors from scratch, that is OK, they would not be too tough to make, assuming you want doors with flat panels, and not beads around them like the stock doors used.
     

  5. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,644

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    That is a pretty easy section to make, the first rule is never cut anything out until you have a new part ready to fit. shaping the repair section should be fairly easy even for a beginner but like others have said you have more work to do. If it were mine I would take all the paint off, see what you have and start from there. You don't need lots of machines to make repair sections, I show a little of what can be done with a few hand tools on my youtube footage.

    David
     
  6. PiecesofEight
    Joined: Jul 24, 2011
    Posts: 11

    PiecesofEight
    Member

    Thank you everyone for your replies, I should have noted the picture I added is from the ad when I purchased it. It was simply a reference photo trying to note the section that needs to be removed.
    She is down to bare metal, has been braced, the metal that covers where the door is has been removed, rebuilt the door jams, and all that other fun stuff. I do have a set of doors, and everything that goes with them.
    That being said, pretty much just follow standard procedure and make the new panel to a rough fit, cut, weld, and finish?



    Heres a shot of my rear bracing and the car when I first started doing the patch work.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. 69f100
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 734

    69f100
    Member
    from So-Cal

    nope, the whole damn thing is shot, ill be over in an hour to take it to my house
     
  8. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,644

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    To answer your original question, I would brace it before cutting the area out especially if you intend to cut the post out as well which I think you would have to?. keep the braces away from the area you are working as much as is possible so you have room to work.

    David
     
  9. PiecesofEight
    Joined: Jul 24, 2011
    Posts: 11

    PiecesofEight
    Member

    The post itself is strong, and I wasn't planning on removing it? Just the sheet metal that laps over it.
    If I remove the red boxed area, will the green area bow, move or distort?
    [​IMG]
     
  10. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,021

    chaddilac
    Member

    If the subframe is still in it.. you should cut that sheet out where the door is. Then cut that section out starting at the top and moving towards the rear, then the bottom, the part nearest to the door is only folded over and hooks onto the B pillar. If you cut it out like I sad it won't sag anything on that body.
     
  11. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,021

    chaddilac
    Member

    Mine is like that as well. The tops are really straight flat on those.


    Also I suggest a 1" header to get the windshield up higher and more even with the door glass.
     
  12. PiecesofEight
    Joined: Jul 24, 2011
    Posts: 11

    PiecesofEight
    Member

    Was going with a 1" header so that it looks even all the way around.
     
  13. PiecesofEight
    Joined: Jul 24, 2011
    Posts: 11

    PiecesofEight
    Member

    So cut several pieces and replace one at a time, or cut it out all at once following your given instructions?
     
  14. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,644

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Make the panel in one piece. The more welding you do the more distortion you will have to deal with. If you leave the post in you will not be able to dress that area but perhaps that is the lesser of two evils. I woouls remove it (being a bit of a perfectionist) then put it back on but the condition of the rest of the body may mean it would not be worth all the work.

    David

    Here is a link to my build of my model T. (with a new hand built body)

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=596032
     
  15. jimbousman
    Joined: Jul 24, 2008
    Posts: 549

    jimbousman
    Member

    Here's a guy selling some door for your coupe. Not the worst price in the world if they are as good as he says.

    Parts for Sale 23-25 model t coupe,steele doors,good shape,has both window regulaters,inner and outer door handles,(found another outer door handle)they have all hinges,strait has surface rust only,no cancer rust 250 ea plus shipping and pkging ,[email protected] 509 935 8993
    robert d flesner <[email protected]> 509 935 8993
    2914 wrights vly rd, Chewelah, wa USA - Sat Jul 28 00:03:12 2012
     
  16. PiecesofEight
    Joined: Jul 24, 2011
    Posts: 11

    PiecesofEight
    Member

    Thanks Mindover, appreciate the tips and help!
     
  17. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,021

    chaddilac
    Member

    I'd cut it all out at once if it were me. gonna have to put some curve in it though to get it to line up correctly though.

    Good idea on the 1" header, I did a 2" and thought it looked good till I installed my windshield and went... crap! :D
     
  18. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    What is the condition of the quarter, as pictured in the green zig-zag area? If it's filled with mud and other butchery I'd remove the filler, bump & straighten 9/10 of the area in green before I went in for the area in red.:D Even if the area in green moves abit once you cut the quarter loose, taint no biggie because you can get behind the quarter to shrink, stretch & hammerweld as necessary.

    The patch you've gotta build doesn't look very tough to shape, even without an Ewheel!



    " Meanwhyle, back onboard the Tainted Pork "
     
  19. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,021

    chaddilac
    Member


    Yea the pic really don't look that bad to me!?!?!?
     
  20. PiecesofEight
    Joined: Jul 24, 2011
    Posts: 11

    PiecesofEight
    Member

    Green has been brought down to bare metal, as the rest of the car has. Straightened out the green area panel. Luckily have an Ewheel, so im guessing that is the suggested route to take? The other side I hand rolled and then smoothed out in the e wheel and worked great, but havent had to build a panel at long as this one. Minus the rear skirt, but I was able to just run that through the roller, placing a gradual bend and was able to fit it once welding time came.
     
  21. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    An English wheel is ''a'' way to shape a patch panel like this, but not the only way:D

    You could build this panel in two pieces, with the step/joggle for the B Post made on a brake, and shrunken to shape with a Lancaster type shrinker/stretcher. Also, a hammerform could be a way to go to shape the step/joggle. With the panel built in two pieces, the actual quarter would be very easy to shape via bent over your knee or the bench and a pipe. You could induce shape into the panel by working the panel over a dolly/spoon clamped into a vise with a slapper. In the early days of coachbuilding panelbeaters formed panels by beating them over tree stumps and crudly shaped iron slabs. Many a million dollar Ferrari had panels built just this way:eek:

    I'd try each of these methods, even if on much smaller patch panels, jus to get an idea of what's possible. Be sure to take several templets off the Shotgun quarter to make sure they both have like and kind shape & form!

    You can do it, laddie!


    " Spending a nation into generational debt is not an act of compassion "
     

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