Wicked steering wheel shake, straight axle, found some issues with my setup...

Had the same problem with my Lloyd gasser last summer. Changed the kingpin angle from 6 deg to 10 deg and put a pete @ jakes stabilizer on it also. I had 2" blocks on it also and got rid of them also. I also moved my shackels to rear and got my drag link as straight as i could. I can now go 80-90 mph down the highway and let go of the wheel and it goes straight and no shake at all and this is on a 80" wheel base car with a 165 85 tire up front.

 

Whoa, post #28 shows the front axle a little clearer, This looks like it was installed upside down. Mr 42 caught this also, check to see that the top of the king pin points rearward and to the center of the vehicle. If the top of the king pin points rearward and away from the vehicle center the axle is in upside down and the kit is for a spring under axle not a kit for a spring over axle or somebody welded the spring pads upsidedown on the axle. You can check this real quick by noting if the top of the tires point outward when viewed from the front.

 

Please post what you find.

 

I understand half of what everyone's talking about but the other half I'm not too sure so I'm havin a local hot rod shop stop by.

I will keep this updated....

Sometimes you gotta just let a pro sort things out, everything the HAMB really helped. I centered The steering fixed my steering box and understand most of the terminology.

But welding and fliping axles and doing it right is where I'm not comfortable. Mainly the geometry and caster....

 

As long as you let someone take a look at it and fix it. it will be OK.

The angle of the Steering arms hint the upsidedown mounting since The ackerman angle is backwards.

 

This has nothing to do with the wobble problem, but wow your mechanical fan is mounted WAY low on your radiator. I've never seen one mounted that low. That motor must run a wee bit hot, huh?

 

ACKERMAN is completely opposite of what it should be. In a very simplistic terms, look at your steering arms and the way you have it set up now, starting at the king pin outward through the tie rod end and they would intersect at a imaginary point in FRONT of the vehicle. The imaginary line should intersect under the center of the vehicle BEHIND the axle. This is your basic starting point of reference for your problem.

 

Dont think this is cause of your problem.That upper shock mount should be turned 90 degree's. It should be the same as the lower one IMO.There might be enough give in the rubber bushing's but it look's like it will bind to me .

 

I just want to clarify what I said earlier. It doesn't matter if you have your tie rod in front or behind the axle, the angle will still intersect somewhere in the center behind the axle.

If the tie rod is out front of the axle like on my 26, you begin your imaginary line from the tie rod end, then through the king pin and out toward the back of the vehicle.

If the tie rod is behind the axle, then the line starts from the king pins and through the tie rod end and then backward toward the center.

I don't know if you can make out my set up, but the tie rod is out front of the axle, and the ackerman angle is correct. It would steer equally well with 1 finger at 10 MPH or 110 MPH.

 

These guys are on top of your situation, axle was built to go on top of the springs, not under.

 

His centerlink is in the rear and Ackerman should be fine. The axle does appear to be upside down though.

 

The long dropped pitman arm is kinda spooky too. It could be giving enough leverage along with the downhill draglink angle to flex the box at the frame when hitting a bump. Would require repositioning the box to remedy though.

 

Facing the Front of my car 15' away both tires do have an angle

/ \

Doesn't mean anything really just noting it, what I'm unsure of is that my king pins were welded on by the previous owner or was a speedway axle or one of the many out there.

The guy coming tomorrow has 25yrs and has a long list of Hot Rod builds so we shall see !!!

Thanks again...

 

the shocks mounted at such a lay back position could be some of the issue.

 

Take a close look at this picture and compare the angle of the king pin to yours





All three of those are "right side up" and notice the king pin would be pointing near the center of the tire. Yours is appears to be pointing the wrong way, hence the axle is upside down. This is most assuredly causing the problem you are experiencing.

 

I see what your pointing out, was sort of lost, yikes !!!

What is odd then is that my tires still have the / \ angle

You would think having my axle upside down would have it more like \ /

 

Yes to some extent. The weight of the car should bow the axle negating some of the positive camber.

 

Read carefully...your stubs are also upside down. you need to flip the axle, AND the stubs, then bolt the steering arms back onto the respectively same postions as they are now.

 

I understand....

Wow

What type of angle is recommended for strut placement, current placement really serves no purpose. The angle to my eyes is to extreme to be functional, I bet ya these leaf springs keep a ton of pressure of the struts..

Thanks again, great info

 

I dont get what you mean by Struts, shocks?
The more you lean the shocks the softer they gets.

The kingpin also decides the Camber, and as much the camber is a compromise dependeing on what you want.
The normal goal is to get the tire to be flat against the ground.

 

Mr 42 Thanks for your valuable info.....

Today I should have more info on what the plan of attack is, fabricator is stopping by to check out my car. I will have a list of questions for him.....

 

Looks like a speedway axle. After looking at the pics it does look like your axle is upside down. The reason you tires are leaning like / \ and not the other is your spindles are also put on upside down.

 

Simply flip the axle beam around/rotate it 180 degrees from the spring pads. Cut the spring pads off & weld them back on the other side of the beam. The spindles & evrything else might be installed correctly, just all upside down on the spring pads.

 

Local guy stopped by and thought everything looked fine, I really stressed on the king pin angle and that the axle is upside down ?

Also how I would like the 2" blocks removed, shocks welded to the axle and that should bring my Drag Link almost parrell to my axle, wasn't to concerned on that either

I hate to complain as I'm just learning the ropes and I shouldn't be criticizing ... clearly from the HAMB information and EVERY Straight axle I have seen and studied there is NOT one I can find similar to mine...

His shop has built some pretty impressive cars and hot rods, I just will have to pass on sending him any work, just strange as I stressed the axle being upside down and never seeing one like that on any straight axle car.


I have one more shop that WILL fix this issue, might be a wait but I know he's a Fine fabricator and Builds chassis from the ground up. All 1/4 mile drag cars. He was not my 1st choice as he's busy but I can wait, I really wasn't expecting the feedback I got from the other guy....

This axle resembles a speedway axle, speaking with a few other buddys they did mention when you purchase the axle the spring mounts are NOT welded in.

So previous owner of my car just made a mistake, that is what I can be certain of, everything else on this car is impressive !!!

HAMB I really thank all of you !!!

Awesome Stuff !!!

I will keep this updated no doubt about it !

 

I would totally avoid this guy who looked at it and saw no problem. He has no comprehension of suspension design geometry and is therefore, in his current profession, highly probably going to be charged with manslaughter at some point. hopefully not of you or anyone you know...

 

As a PE for 30 years, I am glad to read of the advice you've received from the HAMB guys.[Polacko & Dick S. esp.] You can get this issue sorted out, I was thinking you might benefit from a visit to a good alignment shop to confirm specs, IF they know how to properly set up straight axles.

 

Right, I said this on another thread:

the 1960 -1978 VW Beetle damper is basically what Socal sells (with tie-rod clamps added by Socal).
This has an eyelet on one end (the fat end) and an angled stud on the other end.
The equivalent is Moog SSD58, NAPA 113425021, Sachs/Boge 226439, Gabriel (Autozone) 14004.
The dimensions are 13.2 to 19.4 inches.

There is also the VW Transporter (type 2 or Bus) damper which I have never heard of anyone using but it looks good and has eyelets both ends and a dust shield. Boge 224899, NAPA 211425021.
Dimensions per NAPA are 11-1/2 to 16-3/4 inches, and 3/8" eyelets.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6799371
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I should add -- I had death wobble and the problem was my toe.... don't add a stabilizer until you've checked alignment, kingpins, steering links, etc.

 

There was a guy last year that asked me to come over and look at his 'gasser'.
It is a '53 Ford Coupe, nice clean car...all the suspension had been unbolted, and he had welded some spring hangers and shackle brackets on.
He installed a pair of '59 F100 Ford springs, and the front axle and spindles upside down.

No amount of explanations I could give him were taken seriously. The guy finally accused me of being envious of his 'ideas', (wished I had done it first???)
There is no end to this... LOL

 

Look at the front wheel while some one turns the steering wheel yours will move in an arc. Now look at other cars or trucks the wheel will pivot in one spot. Just wondering does the car return to center after making a turn or do you have to help it?