Getting it'ta Hook-Up at the drags?

Got to Dragstrip for first time with the '61 tri-power six Comet. I had one of oldest cars which matched being one of oldest drivers, right from the Tech guys everyone was helpful and I lined up with no problems.I asked questions and people were glad to talk and encourage me to go faster... .

vigin runs were fun, car ran perfect at WOT and I didn't break anything ... did OK (see timeslips), but tire spin and some wheel hop at launch and second gear needs some help - more power (RPM) at launch just increased tire spin not speed.

Keeping it simple, suggestions on optimizing street car test&tune HOOK-UP appreciated , takes practice of course but tire pressure recommendations and general advice on lessening spin/burnout appreciated ...

The '61 has the 250 Tri-Power SIX , T5 , 3.80 posi, "traction masters" ("shelby bars"), Radial T/A's 245/14 @ Rear=30PSI, Front=35PSI

ran: @ 16.466 (.546 RT) 83.53MPH


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... how old are you ?..., - - just hit it when the first yellow lights come on... :?

 

Cool! You'll get a 15 out of it with just more seat time. Burnouts with radials aren't gonna help much. I've heard both sides of the story with tire pressure. I've tried more and less myself and never noticed much difference but I'm running 2.79 gears so I don't spin much anyway. Most guys will tell you a little wheels spin is better than bogging anyway.
Just do all the simple stuff you can. Take any unnecessary weight out of the car. (every 100lbs is good for about a 1/10)
Stage as shallow as possible. Trip the first yellow and just get the second one to barely flicker. This will give you more of a rolling start.
You didn't mention your 60' time. You will learn that this number means more than anything else.
Above all - just keep it simple and have fun.

 

Your best bet would be a small slick or drag radial. Small sizes can usually be found on craigslist or at the swap meets pretty reasonable. Radial TA's are hard as a rock, no matter how low the pressure it's just not going to happen.

 

Stock Racer brings up a good point, your tires are never going to work.MT,M&H,BFG and a few others all make a good tire. Just pick a tire thats no TALLER than what your currently running. A set of Cal Trac's might be a good idea.

What RPM's are you turning? What's your launch RPM?

Elwood

 

The people at drag races are great. Always so helpful, as if they are trying to help you beat them! It seems you have two issues for now. First, your tires have got to go. Try this link: http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.php I use M/T Drag Radials at about 10 psi behind a big block, and they do not spin. This may cause you to need a different rear axle. Finding this out at the track may require the use of a trailer!! I am not sure of your traction bars, but they look like the Cal Tracs I am using. Wheel hop is caused by your leaf spring creating an "S" curve under torque and releasing. The traction bars should prevent this. Check the adjustment instructions. Cal Tracs recommends to adjust the tension to hit the stop, and then 1/4 turn more to pre-load the springs. Do this with the driver in the seat. One more tip for traction would be the use of a spool. A posi can still slip. They are designed for street use, while a spool locks the axles, period.

 

same answer .... drag radials, slicks,or
http://www.towelcityracingtires.com/Home_Page.html
http://www.hurstracingtires.com/

if your getting wheel hop you might be flexing your springs... how old are they?
whats your pinion angle? how was teh track prepped?
drop your pressure to 20 psi in the rear
drive around the water box

 

Wow sticky tires on a 16 second car ?? That's a waste of money. Do some searching on how to setup your style suspension or ask a chassis shop to help you. You have enough tire at this point.

 

I agree. The traction masters are part of the problem. Look at where the front mount is relative to the spring eye. Buy or weld up some slapper bars, fiddle with the tire pressure (with the rim width you are running, I would start by trying higher not lower), and if its still hopping, replace the front spring bushing with urethane or aluminum.
find some clean, flat pavement, lay a patch, not power braking, just punch it from a standing start, and look at the patch it lays. If its lighter in the center, more tire pressure. Light on the edges, less. If its pretty even, your tire pressure is where it needs to be.

 

Ive seen alot of 15 and 16 second cars that were that way because of traction. You might try clamping the leaves on the back 1/2 of the springs.

 

Lot's of things about drag racing are expensive. A set of Cal Tracs and the correct tires may be the least expensive fix. Remember, his question is how to prevent tire spin, and he also mentions wheel hop. Slower e.t. is not as important as consistency. Even slower cars need to have a consistent launch for bracket racing. If he's slipping around on launch, how can he create an accurate dial in? If I were trying to save money, I would not be taking my car to a chassis shop. Most likely they will tell him to change his tires, get a better traction device, and charge him to do it!

 

Some have recommended disconnecting the front sway bar, is this effective on street car setup?. Simple enough if worth the effort, Comet has "Shelby Mustnag" thick 1" front sway bar and the Six cylinder has more forward weight than V8.


thanks

 

I agree about the slapper bars being a good, reasonably priced fix. I had a set of Lakewoods on a pretty much stock suspensioned 68 Mustang and it ran in the mid 11's. I had 11 inch M & H slicks on it and got no wheel hop with that setup, even with a 4 speed.

Those Shelby bars were sort of made more to help cornering I think, than straight line performance. But I have never had any, so really not sure.

Don

 

I agree, your spring is wrapping up causing wheel hop, which will eventually break something. You could go to a super stock style leaf spring with a pinion snubber or cal-trac bars.

 

Overloading the right rear spring is the culprit behind wheel hop. The twist on your drive shaft in low gear causes the right rear wheel to lift (adds to the the car weight on the spring) and the left rear to plant. The Mopar stockers of the past had an extra leaf added to the right rear spring - a serious piece of spring too (one of the long leafs and thick). Have someone stand at the right rear corner as you do a start and see how much the fender drops.

You can also jack weight onto the stiffer RR spring - it goes cross corners - by using what was known as an "air-conditioning spacer" - a hard rubber ring over the left front spring. May be available through the Mustang suppliers - they used them to good effect.

 

It won't be a 16 second car after it hooks up.

Get some tires!

 

ran: @ 16.466 (.546 RT) 83.53MPH

With smokers off the line, you'd think the MPH would be higher. Maybe you have too much low end grunt and not enough top end capability.

Not that you could use some traction improvements also

 

Yea, you GOTTA shell out big bucks for Cal-Tracs, ALL the cool guys have 'em. Hell, until Cal-tracs came along, NO ONES car hooked or et'd worth a crap...

 

You dont have to unhook it at the track, just loosen the mounting brackets where it attaches to the frame.
But thats not going to cure your wheel hop. The traction masters you have on there now are binding up the rear suspension on launch, the mounting point of the bar is way ahead of the spring eye, they are a big part of the problem. The traction masters are trying to make the suspension move in a different arc than the springs will allow, this is making the front spring eye bushing deflect and rebound. If those are the original bushings in the front spring eye, they are probably completely shot, and they will be a problem no matter what traction device you use. Take a good look at the front bushing, if its shot (cracked, swollen, ect) they MUST be changed for the car to work. Whatever traction device you use on a leaf spring car (unless it uses a floating perch) the force will act on the chassis through the front spring eye. If the bushing is shot, it just isnt gonna work. Cal Tracs WILL cure your problem, primarily because part of the cal-trac system is a solid aluminum front spring bushing. So wil slappers and a urethane front spring bushing, for a lot less $$$.
But you wont be one of the cool guys...

 

falcongeorge got it right in the first sentence. The traction masters are ill fitted to the car. I ran proper fitting traction masters from the mid 60s to the mid 70s in my 62 vette street racer. All the proper set up traction masters did was to bind the rear suspension so it would not wind up the springs. No traction improvement, except for keeping the tires on the ground.

Back then, I would put on a show for my fans by putting down 600' tracks (using 3 gears) . Impressive, but not accelerating quickly.

Eventually, I built a set of traction bars from a set of Lakewood 69 Camaro bars (bars for my car were no longer made). What a difference. With the same size 10" rear street tires, I could only spin them 30' launching at 6000 rpm. With 10" slicks they do not spin at all.

The difference is traction bars merely bind the rear suspension and put he Instant Center 20-30 feet in front of the car causing the rear axle to lighten from 1500 lbs to , maybe 500 lbs. Set up slappers will locate the Instant Center to lift the entire car taking that 1500 lbs and making it to maybe 3000-4000lbs.

The down side is, if you do it too good, you can break every thing in the drive train. Although, I doubt that will be in your case. Pix below shows how it is done. BTW, in these pix, the exact same original front and rear suspensions are used , not modified in any way. Good luck. Jim






On the way down, after unloading the bars.

 

Maybe you should listen to the guy who backs up his opinion with pics of his car doing giant wheelstands....


Nice simple good working suspension. Nice little car.

-Abone.

 

some good info , and wether or not it will lift the tires, I'd like to see the burnout energy used to help launch. From the discussion, the "Traction Masters" ("Shelby Bars") are not best choice. I have a set of Traction bars supposed to be 9" 70's Mustang I want to adapt to the Comet 8"/springs. What's main axle/spring geometry setup?.

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thanks

 

Hey, I didnt want to read all the threads so Im just going to give yopu my input! In my 2 1/2 ton 1957 Chevy 4 door wagon I was running 15.3's at best for a whole year of racing which was not that many passes. I wanted better times so I installed an adjustable traction bar kit for my stock rearend, some wider rims and M&H street/strip bias ply's and removed a small amount of weight from the car and I now have my times in the low 14's consistently!
It don't take much to make better times!

 

I have yet to see a big wheel stand win a race.

Lots of good info on suspension.

 

All the cool guys have them, because they work

 

Is that comment directed to me, as I am the only one showing a wheel stand?? I just back up what I say. The OP and I do not race Pro Stock. Both our cars are street cars. The wheelies in our level of racing means nothing other than getting the spectators revved up.

My comments are to help Powerband get rid of the hop and wheel spin for little $$ and move his car into a much better ET.

If you want break your record of "I have yet to see a big wheel stand win a race", I can show a bunch of videos.

 

There is NO REASON IN HELL for a guy with a 13/14 second bracket car thats clocking 2 second + short times to spend $350 on Cal-Tracs, when a set of used $50 lakewood bars and some new spring bushings is gonna do the job for him.

 

And I can show a video of a small-tire street car doing a small wheel-stand and clocking a low 1.40 short time. As vetrod says, its really nothing to do with a guy on a budget making his 6 banger comet work half decent at the track, which is what we are here for. Christ, you know, every time (and thats not very goddam often anymore) I answer a tech question on the HAMB, I am usually regretting saying anything before it even gets to the bottom of the second page.

 

These are exactly what you need, but if its old,change that front spring bushing while you are under there.

 

Perhaps you are on a budget, but Powerband mentions nothing about cost in his original post. He is looking for a simple effective way to prevent spin and hop. That's it. Lot's of opinions on how to do this, and he should have many to choose from. Your solution may very well be the best. Since you advertise that satire may be in your posting, I am surprised at your reaction for receiving the same. Easy there.

 

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html

It took me hours to find this again for you guys, hope it helps.
Anyone with minimal fab skills can do this for minimal cash and some time.

" Since they are generally designed for high horsepower applications, Caltracs are very heavy-duty devices and can in this writer's opinion be rather expensive. Since most of us aren't driving a 600 + hp Sportsman Class race car on the street, at least not for everyday driving, we don't need the "heavy duty" aspects of Caltracs but we still want all the benefits they provide. The solution is simple."

Check out the link