A painter can take paint from the same can and produce different colors using different air pressure, thinners and spraying it wet or dry. You would swear that it was not the same paint used. Insurance companies now allow extra money to get an "acceptable match" so if tey are paying, there must be a problem.
You went all the way to Santa Ana to get a color match, when you could have came to me to help you out?.. Next time let me give it a try before you head out all the way out there. Hope to see you soon to help you out next time when you need a color match..
The solvents play a role in opaque/pastel colors too. Slow drying solvents will allow the heavier tints (oxides) to settle at the bottom of the panel or surface, the lighter tints (toners) float to the top, the color's now different. I've had a few pros call bullshit on that one. Those are the ones I give my "...just lucky..." answers to. We did an OT Vette that refused to match regardless of that painter's efforts. Fast dry solvent, drying time to adjust final color, AND CLEARED, which will change the "flop" when viewed at certain angles. Wrote it all down and sent him to the booth. It fucked up again and we questioned the procedure (the paint rep hung around during the application). The painter decided we were both stupid to use cold shop thinner on a hot day for the base (his words). Yeah, it floated out to too orange...again. I've had 3 colors that refused to match. Lincoln "Diamond Jubilee Blue" from 79-80, "Electric Currant Red", also a Lincoln LSC color, and a metallic gold on a late model Ford Ranger that had 5 variants, NONE of which matched the truck. The last one would not flop, but looked good straight on. The LSC color couldn't take the final coats to match w/out crazing (fuckin DuPont base in the late 90s!). The Diamond Jubilee was an OA paint code only (overall) from all 3 of the major manufacturers. It had an awesome 3D effect in the OEM finish and I never figured out how to duplicate it. Still, it's not rocket science as much as it is patience and dedication. I've matched old pearls in the past as well so ANYTHING is possible...except Diamond Jubilee Blue!
You are correct in your quote Rodger.. All these factors is and are critical to making a color to match but most people dont follow these little things.. I try to explain to my customers what they need to do to have a good and effective color match and most importantly is to "Blend" when colors change and fade in time.. Some Insurance companies "Don't" want the body shops to blend colors, just to save the $$$. I hade to deal with a 3 stage white pearl that had to be painted like 4 times cuz the insurance company didn't want to pay for blending.. Thats stupid to match a # stage white pearl and not blend.!!! The shop waisted more $$$ in materials, labor to get it prepped and painters time to painting it (4 Times) when it could have been done by painting AND blending it in one time process.. And not to mention, It's still not done.!!! LOL Any who.. Yes a lot of the key things that you mentioned are so true to make a color to match better by following these things.. Good Point.!!!
Wait till you get a metallic with 14 variants. Just depends where at what factory it was painted. Lippy
And this is what really frustrates me, the code. A friend of mine and I are both painting cars now. We both went through the same thing. You find an old color you like, you look up the code, and no one has the formula, or, the code was used on different colors on different years, and the paint guy tries to convince you it's the same color, I'm not blind! One guy even told me I was hung up on the name, and offered to write it on the can so I can call it that!!! My friend ended up settling for a fleet color that was close to what he wanted. I took a different route and got the paint guy to adjust something that's in the ballpark. It's really frustrating though because he mixes a pint, I go home and spray, then go back and tweak it again. It's a PITA, and it's getting frustrating not to mention expensive. I'm trained in art, but it's hard to communicate with him, when inspite of my knowledge of color, I have no idea what's available to me as far as bases, tints, toners, and effects in that back room. What do restorers do when they restore a 1957 Cadillac Eldorado code 096 Elysian green, and no one can find a formula? I've had people tell me you can't mix that color anymore- BULLSHIT, anything can be matched but you gotta have a place to start. If I don't have a paint chip to scan or a modern formula, then I'm out of luck. If the formula existed once, where did it go? I know the paint has changed, but my God, we have computers now but no record of the old formulas or a way to translate them to modern paint!!! Frustrating! end of rant
Quote "we have computers now but no record of the old formulas or a way to translate them to modern paint!!! Frustrating! " The problem is that the old tints are not avaiable anymore. The new tints can't produce the same colors anymore. Close, but no cigar!
Sorry to hijack, but I have questions! So, my father-in-law and I are getting ready to spray some spots on my '54, the inner window moldings, the steering wheel, probably the doors when I shave em, but I was wondering. A few years ago I had an old grey beard down the street from me paint my fender skirts after I'd already had the car painted. I asked him if I had to get the paint color name/number and he surprisingly told me "naw, black is just black." and they matched PERFECTLY! It was like they were painted WITH my car, but really they were a few years apart! I told my father-in-law this, and he's had experience with painting, but he was almost sure that black'd be hard to match and unforgiving. He even said he doubts his abilities to feather the shaved door handles in with the rest of the door (hence my hesitation), so I just had to ask. Does it really matter or will we be ok? I'd had a little overspray in a spot and surprisingly some scotchbrite and paint thinner took it off pretty easy, so that was good in telling us if he used any hardener or not!
ive both painted and mixed paint most of my adult life.hell im 57. ive seen all kinds of paint problems and have had all kinds of problems painting.ive at one time had a following from paint shops that wanted me to mix their paint.(patting self on back lol). we all seem to know paint so all i got to say is matching todays paint isnt as hard as getting 2 painters to shoot the same paint and come up with the same color.different guns,different settings and diferent shooting styles can and will end up with 2 different colors.as far as matching colors go red and blues , to me was always the hardest to match.oh and a few silvers would make me want to drink a big jug of whiskey.so many varibles to matching color its mind blowing.as is shooting the color.i keep different tints in the shop just in case we need to play to get something matched, that our paint supplier couldnt do.
I formulate and match paint for a living and it is becoming a dying art that no one seems to want to learn. The new OEM colors get more complicated all the time with tri coats and special effect pigments. As was stated before get a little of all the toners in the formula and with a little experimentation you will quickly learn what the color needs.
The Jalopy Journal
