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Knowledge is king! MIG or TIG?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tfeverfred, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    In an effort to better myself and possibly seek a new career, I have decided to enroll in community college courses at Houston Community College. There seems to be a fairly good manufacturing sector in Houston and I'm considering Welding Specialization.

    My question is whether I should chose MIG or TIG? Which one is used the most in industry? Which is more practical in reference to the job market?

    Anyone with knowledge in the work place is requested to answer. Anyone who just has an opinion is also requested to answer.

    Feel free to offer support. As a 53 year old, trying to go back to school, I'll need all the support I can get.
     
  2. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    My personal opinion as someone who has been a professional welder, doing TIG and pressure vessel work as well as general fabrication since I was 17 will follow. As well I have been teaching welding apprentices in all welding processes and welding theory and inspection full time for the past 15 years.

    I'm 58 this year and can't imagine just getting started in the welding field right now.

    The work is hard, I have a lifetime of experience and wear and tear breaking down my body to prove it.

    I have had, knee surgery,back surgery, carpal tunnel surgery and soon will be having a hip replacement.

    And both my shoulders are basically shot from so much heavy carrying and overhead work.

    I have limited overhead reaching ability now.

    With that being said overall I'm still healthy enough to do the work I used to in the field although maybe not as fast anymore.

    And it is less enjoyable than it once was.

    I regularly get older students in my apprenticeship classes, and (not always mind you) they are usually the ones who struggle.

    The issues they have are sometimes flexibility and sometimes vision.

    Mig is by far easier to learn, Tig needs a high degree of manual dexterity and hand eye coordination along with very steady hands. And top notch vision without bi-focals.

    If you have bi-focals you will need single vision glasses for medium to close work for most welding processes and especially for Tig.

    With all of that in mind, if you are in good physical condition with good to excellent vision you have a good chance of being sucessful.

    One last word of advice, be very cautious when it comes to private schools like Lincoln Tech or ATI.

    Very often their primary concern is how much money they can get out of you and then maybe they will care about if you actually learn anything useful.

    I would be very skeptical on their training methods and the instruction too.

    You will be better off with a college with a good welding program something I understand is a hard thing to find in the US.

    Mig will be the starting point and then try Tig after that. Stick welding (SMAW) will also be helpful. And learn to weld with a basic Oxy -Actylene torch and how to be good with a cutting torch too.

    Good luck. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  3. I think it depends on WHAT industry or Job Market you are looking for?
    General welding?
    Specialized pipe fitting?
    Ornamental Iron Works
    Automotive?

    makes a HUGE difference in my opinion as to where to steer you.
     
  4. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    WOW! Great info on the first post. This place never ceases to amaze me. Well, the classes are at the community college. It's connected with the University of Houston, so I know they are not a scam. I do wear bi-focals, but I'm otherwise in good shape.

    To narrow it down, I'd say I'm looking at something in general welding and automotive welding.
     

  5. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    To save yourself a lot of frustration get to your eye doctor and get a prescription for a pair of glasses with a single vision that will work well for close up to medium distance.

    You will thank me for that. It will not be ideal as you will still need your regular glasses while doing anything besides welding, however it can be extremely frustrating and not productive at all trying to learn to weld while always shifting and moving your head around trying to find the "sweet spot" where you can see well enough through your bi-focals.

    Again I'd say Mig is a good starting point and go from there. You will be far more versatile if you can become proficient with all the welding processes instead of limiting yourself to one thing.

    I know a lot of the US welding training is like that, if the workers are going to just weld with Mig, they just teach them Mig.

    Job specific training like that tends to limit you in the work force and helps employers keep your wages down.

    Up here however we train our journeymen to be proficient in all welding processes and as a result they can work anywhere in a lot of different industries, and tend to make good wages. Welders up here earn anywhere from $30-$50 per hour.

    Again good luck.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  6. oldsman41
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 1,556

    oldsman41
    Member

    auto welding has really went to tig. my neighbor has his own shop he builds dragsters uses tig almost all the time. but learn all the stuff you never know who will hire you after you graduate.
     
  7. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    Good advise, Blue One. I'm looking at HCC's website and both the MIG and TIG programs lead to a certicate of study. They both include an intro to other forms of welding. This is a course overview.

    Welding - Mig specialization​
    Certificate​
    F​
    irst Semester Credits

    WLDG 1421 Introduction to Welding Fundamentals............................. 4
    WLDG 1425 Introduction to Oxy-Fuel Welding and Cutting.................. 4
    WLDG 1428 Introduction to Shielded Metal Arc Welding (SMAW)........ 4​
    Semester Total 12​
    S​
    econd Semester Credits

    WLDG 1413 Introduction to Blueprint Reading for Welders.................. 4
    WLDG 1457 Intermediate Shielded Metal Arc Welding (SMAW)........... 4
    WLDG 2443 Advanced Shielded Metal Arc Welding (SMAW)............... 4​
    Semester Total 12​
    T​
    hird Semester Credits

    WLDG 1430 Introduction to Gas Metal Arc MIG Welding...................... 4
    WLDG 2447 Advanced Gas Metal Arc MIG Welding............................. 4
    WLDG 1417 Introduction to Layout and Fabrication............................. 4​
    Semester Total 12​
    Program Total 36
     
  8. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    This is the basic program.

    Basic Welding​
    Certificate​
    F​
    irst Semester Credits

    WLDG 1421 Introduction to Welding Fundamentals............................. 4
    WLDG 1425 Introduction to Oxy-Fuel Welding and Cutting.................. 4
    WLDG 1428 Introduction to Shielded Metal Arc Welding (SMAW)........ 4​
    Semester Total 12​
    S​
    econd Semester Credits

    WLDG 1413 Introduction to Blueprint Reading for Welders.................. 4
    WLDG 1457 Intermediate Shielded Metal Arc Welding (SMAW)........... 4
    WLDG 2443 Advanced Shielded Metal Arc Welding (SMAW)............... 4​
    Semester Total 12​
    Program Total 24
     
  9. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    I noticed both the MIG and TIG programs are the the same. The difference being which style. Perhaps I should start MIG and then consider TIG later.
     
  10. cowboy1
    Joined: Feb 14, 2008
    Posts: 914

    cowboy1
    Member
    from Austin TX

    Wow that looks like an in depth course. I took 2 courses but it was all pretty basic. I'm still not the greatest welder but I practice.
     
  11. I own a fab shop and the type of work will be very regional. We do very little tig but lots of stick and mig. At your age I would suggest some kind of shop work where you can be more comfortable. For general job shop work mig will be the way to go. Tig is always good to have in your back pocket if your in a small shop. You might be the only guy that can run the dusty machine in the corner. Go and get some glasses right now before you start so you don't have to switch later. My glasse are made to focus about ten inches in front of my face. I can always tell when a guy needs glasses. They can't mantain a straight line.
    Trust me I am not down on schools. I like that you are looking at the local community college so you aren't putting out a lot of money. I have had poor luck with trade school grads. Depending on the school they are taught to pass a test. Most do not get any training on layout or fabrication. They come out of school with a cert and think they deserve big money. I have had some succesful grads but they came with a humble attitude and realized that they were starting at the bottom.
    Learn as much as you can. Considering where you are there should be all kinds of possibilites. Good luck.
     
  12. I'm not a professional welder by any stretch, but i'll simply tell you my experience...

    i learned how to stick weld when i was a teenager. it was absolutely invaluable to my learning process with both MIG and TIG.
     
  13. rottenrods
    Joined: Sep 17, 2010
    Posts: 211

    rottenrods
    Member

    I'm a union welder by trade, in my line of work tig is where the money is at but its considerably harder than mig to learn. Maybe you could find someone to show you a little tig welding before you make your mind up.......you might be a natural
     
  14. Did I miss where Fred said he needs glasses? Just curious.

    Me I wear a pair of readers with a magnifier in the lens. Has worked very well for me for the last few years now since my eyesight started fading up close (only)
     
  15. mendoza727
    Joined: Dec 11, 2006
    Posts: 76

    mendoza727
    Member

     
  16. john~N~dallas
    Joined: Dec 30, 2009
    Posts: 412

    john~N~dallas
    Member

    I think it comes down to the type of work you plan on doing.

    I took a tig class last semester, started with 6 ended with 2 me and another guy. others either dropped the class or moved to oxy fuel. but I think the ones that dropped had no idea what tig was about and signed up for welding not knowing the differences between the 4 processes offered. I had watched a ton of videos online and had a basic understanding of the process. so when it came to actually welding I had an idea, the others that failed had no interest or idea. I bought a tig for the garage, and tig is the only process I know. I choose tig because it looks the best, its the safest to use at home in the garage, and it was the hardest one to learn. If it was easy everyone would do it. John
     
  17. HighSpeed LowDrag
    Joined: Mar 2, 2005
    Posts: 968

    HighSpeed LowDrag
    Member
    from Houston

    Cortect me if I'm wrong but I always thought that you had to pass the Mig class to be avle to register for the Tig class.
     
  18. dad-bud
    Joined: Aug 22, 2009
    Posts: 3,884

    dad-bud
    Member

    MIG is definitely easier to learn, and has more broad applications for general steel fab work and higher production situations.
    TIG can allow more control of the welding process in the right hands - read lots of practice and knowledge, but is slow and much less productive.
    There will be more positions for MIG welders, but they won't pay as well, though you will be able to earn an income earlier and easier.
    I agree with the general recommendations above - learn MIG first, get good at what you're doing and then expand as opportunities present themselves.
    Good luck with your planned career change - I've done it a few times and have never regretted it, though it isn;t necessarily for everyone.
    Cheers.
     
  19. Penetrator
    Joined: Aug 25, 2011
    Posts: 514

    Penetrator
    Member
    from SK CAN

    You have plenty of excellent advice already, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

    MIG. I worked in manufacturing for 20 years and the physical toll is heavy. I have two shot knees and a buggered back, effectively rendering me an old man before my time. I don't recommend it, but you might do OK if you are in GOOD shape and don't do it for years on end.

    TIG. I have worked in capacities where I've built components and small assemblies seated at a workbench. (I could do that sort of thing until I'm blind). The ability to do MIG and especially TIG work afforded me those positions because everybody in the building could burn wire, very few were good TIG welders.

    In my experience, TIG is most rewarding and suits my fussy nature, but I'd learn both if it makes sense for you to do so.
     
  20. Dane
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,351

    Dane
    Member
    from Soquel, CA

    Hey! I resemble that remark... :D

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Deuce Daddy Don
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,544

    Deuce Daddy Don
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Best advice ever!!----Only thing I would add is to get into the pipe trades apprentice progam---There you can expand your skills!!---Don (welding since 1951)
     
  22. In the automotive field
    TIG for chassis and modification.
    Gas weld for sheet metal work.
    MIG for fast out the door Bondo work.

    You will never regret learning to gas weld and it will lead you to good TIG work.
     
  23. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    Thanks again for all the advise. I'm schedueled to meet with a student advisor next week, so all this info is great to have. Someone I spoke to today talked about an apprentiship program as well. Evidently, they have some companies who instruct some classes with the ciriculum being towards a position with thier company. Things sound good so far and I'm hoping my artistic ability and my love of working with my hands will perhaps pay off.

    It seems like starting with MIG and progressing will be the plan, but I'm still collecting info. Thanks again.
     
  24. WickedA346
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 21

    WickedA346
    Member

    Lots of great advice in the above posts. Like some of the other guys I have made my career as a welder, I started out welding anything I could, I have tig welded frames in shops and production welded with a mig. Now I am a multiple AWS and ASME cerified welder in a refinery, stick, tig, and very little mig welding on high pressure steam lines and vessel tanks and anything else that comes into the shop or breaks in the field. My two cents if you look at your class schedule you will see intro to welding and welding fundimentals, blue prints and oxy-fuel classes etc. I would HIGHLY reccomend those classes, there are so many guys who cant torch cut, braze, or read blue prints. Anyone cant run a bead with a squirt gun (mig) but thats not a welding. I would reccomend starting in your basic SMAW (stick) welding class and get the basics of puddle control and striking an arc. I went to my local comm college and took every class they have even metalurgy and non destructive testing, while I was still in apprentice school. It was the best move I could have done. As for the Mig/Tig same class, it is normally 8 weeks mig and 8 weeks tig. That way the class of 20 kids rotates. Like previously stated, just having the skill and knowledge in your pocket when they need somebody to run that old dusty machine. Just to give you an idea, in Chicago you see ads for production mig welders $13-$15 to start 1st year apprentice starts at $25ish, the difference is skill and jobs. You'll hear alot of advice especially here, my advice is take just keep taking classes, even if your welding in your garage. Just remember whether your welding in a shop or in the field mig or tig, its gets sore, Im fit and 31 and still dont know everything about welding. If you can get in a class taught by an old tradesman, one that will yell at you when you mess up and not sugarcoat it. Thats the way to learn and those old goats are full of knowledge.
     
  25. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,371

    c-10 simplex
    Member

    These are just my opinions; Mind you i have NEVER had any experience working as a welder.

    BTW, i am currently taking an intro to welding class as we speak through a local comm college. This class consists of oxygen/acetylene, TIG, MIG, and Stick welding along with cursory blueprint and symbols. In fact, i will post pictures of some of my "masterpieces" in the scratch start TIG thread shortly.


    1) i think with MIG, it's pretty fast and easy to get a job starting at $13-15 per hr.

    2) TIG (compared to mig) is big/bigger money. Could be $40+ especially in aerospace. But may take longer to learn and maybe is more involved. Keep in mind that there are other types of welding that also pay big money---such as stick pipe welding.

    So, depending on your financial status (do you need an income asap?), If you were to learn TIG first, then MIG is kinda of easy. So, you may want to consider that route. In fact, that is what i am planning to do.

    P.S. i took an intro stick class at another private tech school before this current class. This was 3hrs per day laying beads in all 4 positions---flat, horizontal, vertical, and overhead. 5 days per week for 6 weeks.

    Again, this is just my opinion, but i highly recommend starting with stick because it can and will teach you about puddle control, heat, amperage etc. etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  26. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,530

    aaggie
    Member

    I first struck an arc when I was about ten hanging around a wrecking yard owned by a family friend and was forever hooked on welding. I thought I was pretty good but always wanted to be better so I signed up for courses at the local junior college here in Houston. I started out with six weeks of Oxy/Acetlyn then progressed to stick then Mig and finally a few weeks of Tig. I passed the certification tests when it was all over and I can say it was time well spent.

    Thirty years later I have several good machines in my shop and I enjoy fabrication and repair work. Most of the time I use MIG because it is just easier and gives good results.

    I wear tri-focal glasses so I have a pair of industrial frames with the bullit proof lenses made for close work. Being able to see what you are doing is important. A really good auto darkening hood is a blessing when TIG welding.

    It is a rough life as a professional welder and all of them I know look at least ten years older than they are and seem to be always hurting somewhere. But they all would do it again.

    I guess my advice would be get the training then buy the best equipment you can afford and practice, practice and practice some more.
     
  27. ArtGeco
    Joined: Apr 6, 2005
    Posts: 759

    ArtGeco
    Member
    from Miami

    Sorry to high jack but this seems an appropriate question:
    Why don't welding helmets have the ability to insert prescription
    lenses. Scuba masks have been doing it for years.
     
  28. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Rex_A_Lott
    Member

    There are "cheater" lenses available in different strengths. Sort of like the drugstore reading glasses.

    For the OP, if you have any sort of respiratory problems, or allergies etc, TIG is a much cleaner processs, not nearly as much smoke & fumes generated to breathe every day.
    At 53 you're going to have a tougher time picking it up than the young kids, but just keep practicing. If all you want is a job, there are more opportunities for MIG in manufacturing. Hell, they teach one-armed monkeys to run a Mig gun, but there is more skill involved in learning to TIG, work your way up to that if you can. Good Luck!
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  29. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    That is a good question and an easy answer. Welding helmets are equipped (most of them anyway) or capable of having a magnifier lense we call a cheater lens put in place to help.

    The cheaters are at best a compromise and can not replace a pair of prescription glasses.

    As mentioned the cheaters are like drug store magnifying reading glasses.

    A proper pair of prescription glasses will more often than not have a different power, or prescription for each eye, something that the cheater lens will not.

    There are a couple of reasons why an actual prescription lens will not work to be placed in a welding helmet.

    First of all the width of most welding helmet viewing areas is considerably narrower than the width needed for proper prescription lens placement to correspond with eye width.

    Secondly a pair of prescription glasses on your face work best when close to your eyes, sitting there on your nose :)

    In a welding helmet your eyes would always be a different distance from the lens depending on the welding job you were doing (overhead etc.) and it would be impossible to see correctly through the lenses.

    The precscription would be essentially useless.
     
  30. i really enjoy seeing that they are gona work on oxy welding. this will be a great benefit when it comes to tig. I would try to get it all in. but if i was gona pick one i would pick tig. i find it more "relaxing"; i would also say it is more clean (i dont remember if you were the guy having health problems, or it that was someone else). there has been some great advice on here. whatever you choose have fun.
     

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