I don't know---don't have them (yet)--Coker site says must use tubes,but never heard of a radial tube type tire
They were common in the '50s and early '60s. Actually my first pair of radials I bought used (not old) in about '70 and they were tube type tires.
The first set of radials the Ol' Man put on the roadster were pirelli's in about '60-'62 and they were tube tires. I remember him bitchin' about how much more expensive radial tubes were than regular tubes.
Yeh,I know that (believe me I'm old enough) BUT these tires are made NOW not 50-60 tears ago. I'm wondering if they are saying that because of the riveted rims? What if you have new rims that are not riveted? I sent a question to Coker and NO REPLY?????
I believe it was because early radials had very weak sidewalls and required special radial tubes that were part of a support system.
what wheels? wires? if they are wires i would run tubes. if they are not riveted or anythign like that i think no tubes would be okay. i have 40 ford wheels in the back,no tubes,my 36 wires have tubes
OK I am not a tire person, maybe some who is more savvy about tire construction can help out here. What is the difference between a tube tire and a tubless tire? Not to rob the thread but there in may lie the answer. You may be onto something here. But I know something else that I found out the hard way. I had a pair of radials in the '70s that one would leak down and go flat over night. We could never find the leak so I put a tube in it. A radial tire for whatever reason will wad up a regular tube (and tear it). Radial specific tubes are thicker.
If Coker says they need tubes then I'd run tubes in em. I have messed with a number of mid 50s-65 OT cars that commonly had radials and many of the old spares I saw in these cars were tube type radials. Yep they're made now, Coker sells lots of tube type tires.
The Excelsior Stahl Sport radial tires are designed to be TUBE TYPE. This is due to the range of sizes and applications that the tires cover. Most of the OE wheels during the time period these tire sizes were used required tubes (IE riveted, wires, etc). Although you may be using a new wheels that could perform fine without a tube, we had to design and build the tires for use on the OE wheels. Also note that you must use a radial tube in these tires, not a tube designed for a bias ply. Thanks, Jess Hoodenpyle Vice President - Sales and Customer Service Coker Tire Company 1317 Chestnut Street Chattanooga, TN 37402 Toll Free: 1-800-251-6336
So... If the wheel is designed to be used tubeless then it is fine to go without tubes in these tires?
That statement is something that I just don't understand. You had to ? Why ? Is the market to use these tires on OE wheels so large that you "had" to design them that way ? In light of the huge market that exists for a tire like this for all the hot rodders using more modern wheels, would it not make sense to also offer this tire in a version designed to be used tubeless on modern wheels ?
it would also be nice if the word radial wasn't soo large--would be nice if it was small and only on the back side----just my opinion
Rottenleonard, the Excelsior Stahl Sports tires require radial tubes regardless of if your wheel is tubeless. Blue One, the main reason for a tube type design in this tire is for safety. We want all customers to be able to safely use the tires, even those with the original wheels. There is a potential hazard of using a tubeless tires on a wheel not designed for it. We have to take all uses into consideration when we design a tire. Many of our customer have and use the original wheels. Thanks, Jess Hoodenpyle Vice President - Sales and Customer Service Coker Tire Company 1317 Chestnut Street Chattanooga, TN 37402 Toll Free: 1-800-251-6336
I ran radials on my 1941 Buick Special using the 1941 rims....no problems at all...Sold the car last year and the same tires/rims are still going strong.
I have a donut spare mounted on an original 40 ford wheel,without a tube and it keeps 60 Lb of air---over the winter it only lost 10 lbs!
The reasons for a tubeless tire to not need a tube. #1. It's on a rim with the "safety ledge" #2. The inside piece of rubber that is next to the air is different so as to not be porous to air. If Coker says run a tube, run a tube.
I'm on my second set first was on S0-Cal knockoffs and the second is Wheel Vintiques Steelies and I put tubes as recommended in both installs even though the wheels were both designed for tubeless tires!
A lot of warnings are overkill, mainly to defend lawsuits. A tube is for a rim that has spokes or is otherwise not airtight.
I don't understand why if the manufacturer say's to run a tube some people want to run them tubeless. Nobody is forcing you to run a tube but when something happens, if something happens, you won't have a leg to stand on. Find another tire and run it properly. It's not worth the risk.
4 of them tubes is almost $200.00. The nice thing about tubeless is that most flats are punctures,that can be plugged right on the car
Simply put, the rim bead seat angle/profile is different between tube and tubeless tires. When a tube type tire is used on a tubeless wheel the bead is easily unseated which can result in instantaneous deflation. The tube provides some assurance against that. Bob
I have ran mine at least 15 thousand miles without tubes on Vintique steeliness. A friend has them on original wheels without tubes. Just made a trip from Fla. to L.A. And back.
I have had two sets of these tires, still have a set on my pickup and really like the ride you get and how they look. I figure that the web site says you need to run tubes so they must know what they are talking about and when safety could be an issue I would rather go by their guide lines and not worry. Just me.
This ^^^^^ is the correct answer as to why. More than a few opinions posted in this thread that are about as useless as the typical "expert advice" you're likely to get from your local tire peddler. Some people really oughta keep quiet when they don't know anything more than an opinion based on something they've heard somewhere. Such opinions are fine, useless or not, when they don't involve things that can kill someone, like a blowout that puts a tennis ball sized hole in the side of a tire at highway speeds. The innermost surface of a tubeless tire is much like a tube, in that its made of rubber that's impervious to air. The structural parts of a tire are made from various synthetic rubber compounds that aren't really what you'd call porous, but they are permeable to air because their moleculear structure is such that there's enough room for air molecules to migrate thru them over time. Most tubeless tires that develop big bubbles on the sidewall have some damage to the inner liner rubber that lets air pass. The various rubber compounds in the tire have different permeability levels, and the bubble forms where air is collecting faster than it can migrate on thru the rest of the rubber parts and escape to the atmosphere. Banging hard into a curb, especially with an underinflated tire, can cause both damage to the inner liner and a partial separation of some of the other sections of rubber, setting up the perfect situation to form one of those bubbles. A tire may even have the impermeable inner skin, but the manufacturer may still not call it a tubeless tire. To call is tubeless guarantees that it'll run tubeless as long as the wheel itself will also hold air. But that tubeless designation requires extra quality control steps to assure the inner skin is absolutely and totally intact when the tire ships. If the primary application is for rims that won't hold air, there's not much need for the manufacturer to go to the expense of certifying that the tire will run tubeless, because that expense involves a lot more than just verifying that the inner skin is intact. Even when the goal is production of tubeless tires, there's a certain percentage that comes off the line with a defect in the inner skin although the tire meets all other specs in every way. Those tires can be run with tubes and they'll perform just fine, but they will not run tubeless for very long. Most manufacturers don't sell such tires to the public, but if they did the tires would be branded as tube type after they've left the curing mold and once the inner skin defect has been detected. If the manufacturer calls it a tube type tire, that means he's making no guarantee whatsoever that the tire will run tubeless. And, the fact that Billy Joe Jim Bob had 4 of the same tires that he ran tubeless for 17 million miles has no bearing whatsoever on whether another 4 of them will run tubeless for even a hundred miles. To put it bluntly, if the mfgr calls it a tube type tire, any attempt to run it tubeless is both dangerous and just dumb as shit. FWIW, I worked for 10 yrs as a research and development engineer for Michelin, and everything I've posted above is based on what I learned during that time, and not on personal opinion or old wives' tales.
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