Flathead guys- Is this a good deal?

Here's the deal. I think I know that I should be all over this but you know how it is... Something that requires allot of cash makes you feel like you need justification from your peers, family, etc. So maybe what I'm really looking for is approval in numbers... I'm also clarifying that I'm not a flathead expert yet and maybe what I'm looking at isn't exactly the best deal either?

Anyways, on with the details. I came across a local old timer that has a Merc flathead that just came back from the machine shop. He told me he's all done hot rodding and wants to sell it un-assembled for $2800. Here's the specs., what's been done and included:

'52 Merc block
-Magnafluxed, no cracks
-bored .60
-decked
-polished Merc crank 10-10 w/ chamfer'd oil holes
-new Egge pistons, rods and rings
-Harmon Collins 3/4 cam
-Iski or NOS Lincoln valve springs
-new oil pump
-used Elgin adjustable lifters but still in usable shape
-aluminum flywheel
​

In my mind this motor is really at a perfect point. I really want to educate myself on building flatheads and all the crappy work of pulling the engine, cleaning it and waiting for the machine shop is done. Putting it all together is the fun part right?

 

I didn't see any thing about a timing cover, distributor, water pumps, heads, intake, oil pan, etc. To me its a fair price for a complete unassembled engine. Not a real screaming deal, but a very fair price.
But when was the last time you saw one for sale?

 

It's about fair, but if you've never done taken a flattie APART before, I think it'll be a bit more of a challenge to put back together. Trust me, a SBC, it's not. But, there's lots of good books out there to help.
As stated above, what parts are missing? Those can really add up in a hurry.
Personally, I really dig flatties and I think they're one of the coolest motors around (I have one on an engine stand ready to try to fire up here pretty soon). That being said, you really gotta want one. Not sure if you know or not, but they're not really horsepower motors; usually a bit over 100 horse unless you really work on it (and spend a lot of $$$). And, if you need a water pump or something somewhere on the road, it's not like you can usually just walk into auto zone and grab one like you can for a SBC...

 

might be just me, but I smell a rat and I don't mean a BBC

 

I don't think it's a good deal to pay that much for an unassembled engine that you can't hear run.

 

The used lifters will make little paperweights unless they have the original cam they were on and are numbered so the correct lifter goes on the cam lobe it was running on.
I guess I'm just a cheap bastid but that sounds like too much money to me. I'd go about half that and let him keep his lifters.

 

All the machine work would cost you at least 1k.

The Harmon Collins cams aren't cheap.

Those other parts that come with the motor are quality components.

A good uncracked Flathead block is half the build right there.

And finally, with Hot Rodding, how I see it is that if it suits you and you really want it, you may even pay a bit more than what it's worth in order to get your hands onto it as soon as possible!

If you ask me, you're getting a good deal.

Btw, don't take the horsepower figures into too much account.... A strongly built flathead along the lines of the motor you're looking at will move a Model A/Deuce along very well and sound super cool!

HC.

Edit, not disregarding Rocky's suggestion. Just thinking out loud!

 

Id call it a ok or fair deal (would be better at 2500)
A crack free clean block is worth quite a bit just in the less stress department
Personally id want a bigger bore and forged pistons
The lifters would need refaced to go on a new cam …. the price for that has gone up bad around here....but i think old one are better than new.

 

Right, I left the things you listed out because I have them already. I should mention that I've been building my model A coupe with a 49 merc flathead for the last three years. Over that time, I've collected all the speed equipment that I want- Edmunds heads and intake. Mallory dual point distributor, new truck water pumps, rebuilt 12v generator, 97's etc. So when I listed the specs on the engine I did leave out things like the stock heads, water pumps etc because I have speed equipment to replace it with.

That's the thing, I keep asking myself too, it's not very often that a guy comes across a flathead that just needs to be put together. If I don't move on it will I be really disappointed when I have to pay 3 or 4 grand when I go to rebuild the '49 motor I have right now?

 

an ok deal. I spent 1200 on rings bearings gaskets and cam/lifters. Does it have good valves?

 

Thanks guys this is good help. RodGuy- I hear you, and I know I'm not going to win the hp pissing contest with a flathead. For me it's about ascetics and traditional look for my car. I've known of the cons of flatheads for a long time but won't go SBC.

 

Since you asked. I have heard some stories and seen several threads on here about Egge piston domes that do not fit a flathead (do a search). I would want to see a magnaflux cert. or talk to whoever did the test ( and have them verify ) before I would wade in. Who did the machine work? Do they "know" flatheads?

Good luck.

 

Btw, I don't think this guy is pissing on my leg while telling me it's raining. When I said he's getting out of hot rodding I mean it. He's probably in his mid seventies and he's offered me his entire collection of other Ford parts for $4000 including this motor... So the next decision is whether I spend another $1500 to get allot of parts that I could sell and potentially make it all back and then some or just focus on obtaining the engine. I really need to get back over there and inventory everything before I can pull that trigger. My main goal right now is to figure out if this engine price is way out of line...

 

I think the only question you have to answer is, do you want a flathead? If you answer that yes, I think you have your answer.

 

Doesn't everybody want a flathead.

 

Thank you! That was EXACTLY the justification I needed for an engine purchase I'm making.

 

Grabbit, assuming that you continue to feel the guy is honest. Good stuff, good blocks are getting scarce, good early lifters are rare enough to thoroughly justiyf resufacing, and on and on.
Taking a flathead APART is actually the hard part...assembly ain't nothin'.
Pistons...there is lots of entirely incomplete/inconclusive info drifting around abot Egge piston dome shape.
This makes it GOOD that engine is apart, as you can clay and map tops to see if the reported problems are real and applicable to your set, then disassemble and nuke the pointy part if you have it.
No justification is needed for buying old Ford parts, and when you are 99 it will all be worth more than you paid!

 

All good info. Thanks for your help guys. I think there's allot of truth in that if it's what I really want, it's okay to pay for it even if it's not a smoking deal.

We'll see. Like I said, I've got a stock '49 motor that I'd like to see if I can get running with a minimal amount of work first.

 

Not enough info to really say how good a deal it is.....One thing to always remember....Buyer beware....Also Not many Ol time hotrodders just wake up one morning and say "I'm through with hotrods think i will sell all My shit".....LOL.....But I guess it is possible......Really depends on what else is included, whats not, and who done the machine work.....My advise to you because you say you don't know alot about flaties would be to stay away and mess with what you have first, As it is not a steal anyhow.... And You could do some digging and come up with the same stuff for around the same money later on.....goodluck!

 

Too risky for me. I agree with Cowtown SS.

 

Hey guys, I thought I'd just come back to this thread I posted almost a year ago and let you know that I ended up buying the motor.

After getting my stock '49 flathead running in my coupe last year I'm pretty certain that I have a stuck ring(s). I'm just getting so much blow by that it makes the car almost impossible to drive for long distances. I smell so bad and not to mention its not safe or healthy.

Over the last year I got to know the seller pretty good. He came down on the original price by $300 and even agreed to come over to my shop and help me build it later this year so I figured it was a fair deal. I figured that getting the chance to learn from someone else with Flathead engine building had allot of value in it as well. It's one hot rod building skill that I want to learn since again I just threw a stock engine in the first time.

Thought I'd upload a few pictures of the goodies and the said coupe that's getting the upgrade!

 

You can do a lot with a stock motor for $2800. I bought one for $150, put a set of rings and a set of rod bearings in it and put on new gaskets. doesn't leak and runs great. Lots of fun for under $500.

 

It's like the Mastercard commercial,
Used flathead - $500
Machined flathead - $2500
New friend w/knowledge of flathead - $Priceless...

 

Wow!
You did good.
Get out your special sponge and soak up all that flathead knowledge.

 

Good one!

Look at it this way-- if there was a Flathead School and you could enroll for two semesters for $2500-$2800 tuition and get a free engine at graduation, it would be worth it.

 

Hey, I think you've done real well, especially with having this guy come over and "teach you the ropes" sort-to-speak - yep, that's priceless.

I'm with you on sticking with the flathead. Yes, they "can" be problematic but done right, they will run for quite awhile and if using a 5-speed, they can go down the road just like everyone else @ speed. Good luck and have fun with your build!

Love your car, btw ....

 

On the sticking stocker ring prob...dump in an excessive amount of Marvel Mystery oil, and put some in the tank too, and give it a few more miles. There's little to lose, and a lot of parts will get a good bath that might actuaally help a lot.
Worst case, you lose the cost of the MMO but the engine smells REAL NICE when you take it apart for an eventual overhaul.

 

Flathead and Y block lifters dont wear unless they are run dry. They may have a witness mark. At that time, they can be re-faced very inexpensivly. Never throw them away!

 

Yes Yes Yes on what Bruce said. Don't ever give up on a flathead. Although you have the new engine now, take good care of the old one. Two is more better than one.

 

"Yes Yes Yes on what Bruce said. Don't ever give up on a flathead. Although you have the new engine now, take good care of the old one. Two is more better than one."

and three is more better than two, and four is more better than three... ect ect ect........... <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->